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Old 09-21-2018, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,553 posts, read 7,638,282 times
Reputation: 4361

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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
You do understand, don't you, that MARTA came about because of a federal program. They needed a line to sell it to other locations. That line was the PATCO line, using existing tracks & some existing stations.

The feds now support light rail. The cracks about Charlotte's light rail in this thread vs Atlanta's heavy rail are disingenuous. Different times, different federal priorities.
And you do understand that I haven't made those cracks?


Light Rail is also coming about in part of federal spending via FTA, just as heavy rail was spent on in 6 or 7 cities back in the 70s and 80s.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,553 posts, read 7,638,282 times
Reputation: 4361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485 View Post
No poster said Charlotte was more urban.


A poster said, in response to Charlotte being a giant parking lot and a sprawling city, that Atlanta is an even bigger parking lot and a bigger sprawling city.

That’s completely different than saying Charlotte is more urban.

Otherwise, I can agree with your last 2 post.
I wasn't referring to you or those comments about that specific remark. It was a back and forth from Charlotte485 earlier.

I was being lose with specific wording, admittedly, but largely stand by my comments with the way this conversation has meandered. I can't go back to seek and quote all back and forths.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,739 posts, read 3,263,751 times
Reputation: 2638
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
I wasn't referring to you or those comments about that specific remark. It was a back and forth from Charlotte485 earlier.

I was being lose with specific wording, admittedly, but largely stand by my comments with the way this conversation has meandered. I can't go back to seek and quote all back and forths.
It has meandered. Luckily you stepped in and steered it back to relevance
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,739 posts, read 3,263,751 times
Reputation: 2638
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
I wasn't referring to you or those comments about that specific remark. It was a back and forth from Charlotte485 earlier.

I was being lose with specific wording, admittedly, but largely stand by my comments with the way this conversation has meandered. I can't go back to seek and quote all back and forths.
It has meandered. Luckily you stepped in and steered it back to relevance


(That is not sarcasm btw)
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,553 posts, read 7,638,282 times
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We haven't gotten there yet, so I don't think I'm worth of much credit.

With that said...

I think this conversation should change / evolve differently.

We are firmly in the Charlotte forum with this particular thread. I do think there are some things Charlotte gets wrong about Atlanta sometimes and will dispute things, but what would make this conversation more of a healthy discussion for Charlotte and it's future?

What are some things you like about Atlanta?

Worry about?

Where do you see Charlotte headed in 20 years?

What about Atlanta's experiences can I attempt to explain to help give you guys any realization of what to expect?
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,739 posts, read 3,263,751 times
Reputation: 2638
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
We haven't gotten there yet, so I don't think I'm worth of much credit.

With that said...

I think this conversation should change / evolve differently.

We are firmly in the Charlotte forum with this particular thread. I do think there are some things Charlotte gets wrong about Atlanta sometimes and will dispute things, but what would make this conversation more of a healthy discussion for Charlotte and it's future?

What are some things you like about Atlanta?

Worry about?

Where do you see Charlotte headed in 20 years?

What about Atlanta's experiences can I attempt to explain to help give you guys any realization of what to expect?

Hm. I’d be curious your opinion one how Charlotte in 20 years (adding lotssss of people) would be different than ATL.

Not different because “we don’t wanna be like ATL!” But different because of trends in general.


My opinion is Charlotte won’t have a buck head or such large suburbs as far as heigh or density. SouthPark can’t do it because of road constraints, Ballantyne night get a couple towers but I don’t think much beyond that. I see other new suburbs popping up but like permiter city and not like SouthPark or buckhead or midtown.

I think urban density will be focused around and directly outside of 277. Some high rise in SouthEnd and midtown.

Of course the suburban density I think will continue to grow as typical. Just don’t see them growing in 1970/80/90/00 fashion where they were pretty much building entire new cities.

I think Charlotte and Atlanta will grow the same going forward BUT with the caveat that as far as the urban growth is concerned. Charlotte overall will reflect more of the new ideas of urbanity and density and grow the high density stuff in its singular high density core whereas ATL I bet will densify it’s multiple cores with lower density connecting them.

Charlotte and Atlanta has probably always grown the same and probably always will. It’s just ATL reached a critical mass in a different era whereas Charlotte is reaching its critical mass
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,553 posts, read 7,638,282 times
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Well I would say you guys need to make hard choices and I would consider making long-term 40 year plans and developing key CIDs.

Ballantyne I bet will explode more than you think. I see those massive parking lots as placeholders for residential condos and office campuses alike. I would encourage creating redevelopment plans now that would dictate public infrastructure, future zoning, and transit in 40 years time as cohesive plan for the area.

I would look at Dunwoody/Sandy Springs in Atlanta as an example of an area that just kept growing when most thought it would be just be large suburban office buildings early on.

The key thing is to make sure you leave space for necessary public infrastructure improvements.

South Park, there is a pro and con here. You're right. Atlanta made some tough calls with Buckhead. We added a highway with a SPUI intersection and rail, but the early demand is so similar.

If you look at Buckhead's commercial core (not Buckhead Village), you will see that it is very tightly bound. Sometimes this has the pressure to push larger buildings into a smaller foot print. I would look at an aerial photo of Buckhead carefully.

If it were me I'd try to carry part of the South Park's namesake towards I-77 and Tyvola and create a 40 year plan. Try to let a business district with rail and freeway access develop. I would also consider plans on how to better connect the real South Park to this area, perhaps a rail spur to your Lynx. Maybe called it Southpark Mews, Southpark Center, Southpark city, etc...

This would likely take off over 20-40 years, because most of Charlotte's suburban office growth is between Ballantyne, South Park and the Airport. The key thing is making choices to preserve room for public infrastructure and figuring out where to make the investment in limited places alone for it.

What you will find is increasingly people can't buy a house close to Uptown, so they go further out towards Rock Hill. Businesses will react to the pressure of getting employees to them, so they will move and grow the same. I suspect this will become most apparent between 3m and 4m people.

Your last sentence, I will come back to later on this point (I need to go for now), but I think your downplaying Atlanta that Atlanta follows the same-trends too much and up-playing how far current new urbanism idea will actually change existing single-family neighborhoods on valuable space. There will be heavy resistance and develop-able acreage will be problematic, so people further out.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:58 PM
 
65 posts, read 25,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485 View Post

I think Charlotte and Atlanta will grow the same going forward BUT with the caveat that as far as the urban growth is concerned. Charlotte overall will reflect more of the new ideas of urbanity and density and grow the high density stuff in its singular high density core whereas ATL I bet will densify it’s multiple cores with lower density connecting them.

Charlotte and Atlanta has probably always grown the same and probably always will[/b]. It’s just ATL reached a critical mass in a different era whereas Charlotte is reaching its critical mass
Gotta love how Charlotte folk puts a spin on things.

According to wikipedia:

Atlanta growth rate is 10.92% X 6,500,000 people = 700,000
Charlotte growth rate is 12.98% x 2,500,000 people = 325,000

Atlanta is already much larger than Charlotte and is numerically growing at twice the numerical population numbers. Charlotte is falling further and further behind Atlanta in numerical growth, not catching up by any stretch. Not comparable at all. The pro-Charlotte poster seems to attempt to spin that Charlotte and Atlanta are equals in "growth". They are not, not even CLOSE.

The Charlotte poster continues..."It’s just ATL reached a critical mass in a different era whereas Charlotte is reaching its critical mass". See what he did there? The impression of that is Atlanta has maxed out while Charlotte is still growing and growing. Watch out Atlanta, you've maxed out and Charlotte hasn't, they will be catching up to you soon! lol.

As poster Meep said, Charlotte folk need to focus on developing their own identity and stop trying to copy and compare themselves to other sunbelt metros in areas they don't compare to. I expect next Charlotte posters will be trying to say they are as "music" as Nashville, as cool as Asheville, as educated, research driven with the world class universities as Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, and as big a retirement and resort destination as Miami, lol.

Last edited by Sebastian14A; 09-21-2018 at 05:34 PM..
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,739 posts, read 3,263,751 times
Reputation: 2638
^

I’m a Washington DC poster.


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Old 09-21-2018, 06:43 PM
 
3,451 posts, read 3,132,906 times
Reputation: 3400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian14A View Post
Number one, I wasn't comparing Charlotte to Texas cities, I was comparing Charlotte to two southeastern cities and regions that are closer both geographically and culturally. But since you went there...

Mecklenburg county area: 546 sqmi

Harris County area: 1,777 sqmi = 3 Mecklenburgs
Bexar County area: 1,256 sqmi = 2 Mecklenburgs
Travis County area: 1,032 sqmi = 2 Meckenburgs
Dallas County area: 909 sqmi = 2 Mecklenburgs
Ft Bend County area: 885 sqmi = 1.5 Mecklenburgs

A total of over 10 Mecklenburg counties in area. Reduce those counties down to Mecklenburg size in area and you've got 10 more politically urban counties.
___________________________________

But getting back to the OP....Atlanta has 6 counties that went blue in 2016, Raleigh-Durham has 4 counties that went blue in 2016, Charlotte had only 1 county that went blue in 2016...and that county's area is a mere 546 sqmi. The Charlotte metro region is basically one small blue dot surrounded by Trump country.
So counties no longer count. ok. Sort of moving the goal post like Trump. Still, what's the positive metric of being more "political urban"? More strip clubs, parks or bar? Just trying to get a feel for that fabricated metric to gauge city A as being better than city B. More traffic, crime or ghettos? You know a lot of people associate the term "urban" with Black = Crime....you know, kind of like Atlanta.

I live in Durham, which I like. Raleigh (Wake County) ain't really Blue...maybe sort of really really light Blue. I don't think you know Raleigh that well if you think Wake County is some sort or blue haven. Charlotte has a Black Mayor....had several. Raleigh is more akin to Cary than Durham or Chapel Hill. NC State is a great school, took classes there.
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