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Originally Posted by pcamps
I would agree with this. It was never intended to be a set of rules but the law of life, but being wrongly interpreted, that which was meant for our good became a letter that kills.
Law was not only misunderstood, but was changed into a lie by the scribes, as the prophets tell us:
"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8) "Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)
"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).
"Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have falsified the law". (Zephaniah 3:4)
" My covenant was with him of life and peace........ The law of truth was in his mouth....... But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:5-8)
And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:
"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9
Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.
The law that Jesus CAME NOT TO ABOLISH is the GOSPEL'S LAW
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77God does not want sacrifices, and God not commanded sacrifices. Jesus Christ was killed but He did not want to die.
Jesus sweated blood when he knew they were going to crucify.
Jesus allowed everything happen for us could see that the Jews were wrong.
Jews imposed death sentences ... but God did not want death penalty ... Jesus wanted forgiveness and mercy for all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
Then why are we called sacrifices in the new testament and why did Paul continue sacrificing?
Jesus says that God does not want sacrifices:
"And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless" (Matthew 12: 7).
As you can see, God did not command sacrifices. So it is wrong any part of the scripture that says that God commanded sacrifices or death sentences (human sacrifice).
Jesus Christ is God. And Jesus taught that the commandments about sacrifices and death penalties that were wroten in the Old Testament, were not of God.
"And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless" (Matthew 12: 7).
As you can see, God did not command sacrifices. So it is wrong any part of the scripture that says that God commanded sacrifices or death sentences (human sacrifice).
Jesus Christ is God. And Jesus taught that the commandments about sacrifices and death penalties that were wroten in the Old Testament, were not of God.
Sacrificing animals only points to a human sacrificing himself in that he dies to the selfish desires of flesh.
Sacrificing never ended, the sacrifice just changed.
God does not want sacrifices, and God not commanded sacrifices. Jesus Christ was killed but He did not want to die.
Jesus sweated blood when he knew they were going to crucify.
Jesus allowed everything happen for us could see that the Jews were wrong.
Jews imposed death sentences ... but God did not want death penalty ... Jesus wanted forgiveness and mercy for all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77
Law was not only misunderstood, but was changed into a lie by the scribes, as the prophets tell us: "...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8) "Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)
"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).
"Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have falsified the law". (Zephaniah 3:4)
" My covenant was with him of life and peace........ The law of truth was in his mouth....... But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:5-8) And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:
"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9 Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ. [/i]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77
[/i] Jesus says that God does not want sacrifices: "And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless" (Matthew 12: 7).
As you can see, God did not command sacrifices. So it is wrong any part of the scripture that says that God commanded sacrifices or death sentences (human sacrifice).
Jesus Christ is God. And Jesus taught that the commandments about sacrifices and death penalties that were wroten in the Old Testament, were not of God.
Amen! Keep Preaching the truth, brother!!! The OT corruptions and lies have taken hold and present a major stumbling block to those who would know God and Jesus.
"And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless" (Matthew 12: 7).
As you can see, God did not command sacrifices. So it is wrong any part of the scripture that says that God commanded sacrifices or death sentences (human sacrifice).
Jesus Christ is God. And Jesus taught that the commandments about sacrifices and death penalties that were wroten in the Old Testament, were not of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
Sacrificing animals only points to a human sacrificing himself in that he dies to the selfish desires of flesh.
Sacrificing never ended, the sacrifice just changed.
That's not true, because God did not command nor want sacrifices.
In the Old Testament there are many chapters dedicated sacrifices and holocausts. Only in Leviticus there are 10 consecutive chapters dedicated to the sacrifices and burnt offerings, written like if were God's Word. However the prophets say that God didn't command sacrifices:
"Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: "Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat the flesh. For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices". (Jeremiah 7:21-22).
"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?" (Isaiah 1: 11-12).
"Sacrifice and offering thou hast no delight in; Mine ears hast thou opened: Burnt-offering and sin-offering hast thou not required" (Psalm 40:6).
Hosea tells us: "for faithful love is what pleases me, not sacrifice; knowledge of God, not burnt offerings" (Hosea 6: 6).
Jesus also tells us: "And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless" (Matthew 12: 7).
And the letter to the Hebrews also says:
"Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings thou hast not desired, but a body hast thou prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings thou hast taken no pleasure. Then I said, 'Lo, I have come to do thy will, O God,' as it is written of me in the roll of the book." When he said above, "Thou hast neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law)" (Hebrews 10: 5-10).
You see what a contradiction is found here between these earlier texts and laws on the sacrifices of the Old Testament, for there are whole chapters dedicated to sacrifices and burnt offerings, saying that God had commanded, however, the prophets tell us that God did not command sacrifices..., Jesus tells us that God does not want sacrifices... and the letter to the Hebrews says: "Thou hast neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law)".
The law that Jesus CAME NOT TO ABOLISH is the GOSPEL'S LAW
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 God does not want sacrifices, and God not commanded sacrifices. Jesus Christ was killed but He did not want to die.
Jesus sweated blood when he knew they were going to crucify.
Jesus allowed everything happen for us could see that the Jews were wrong.
Jews imposed death sentences ... but God did not want death penalty ... Jesus wanted forgiveness and mercy for all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 Law was not only misunderstood, but was changed into a lie by the scribes, as the prophets tell us: "...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8) "Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)
"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).
"Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have falsified the law". (Zephaniah 3:4)
" My covenant was with him of life and peace........ The law of truth was in his mouth....... But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:5-8) And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:
"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9 Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. For this reason, the Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77
Jesus says that God does not want sacrifices: "And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless" (Matthew 12: 7).
As you can see, God did not command sacrifices. So it is wrong any part of the scripture that says that God commanded sacrifices or death sentences (human sacrifice).
Jesus Christ is God. And Jesus taught that the commandments about sacrifices and death penalties that were wroten in the Old Testament, were not of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Amen! Keep Preaching the truth, brother!!! The OT corruptions and lies have taken hold and present a major stumbling block to those who would know God and Jesus.
I’ve heard evangelicals explain that the reason God prescribed scorched earth policies in the Old Testament was because the surrounding nations were so evil — that they practiced child sacrifice. (God sent warnings; they didn’t heed them.) Is this just a desperate attempt to justify the unconscionable?
Yeah, well that justification is in the Bible itself, in texts that were written or edited after the institution of child sacrifice fell into disrepute. But the reality is that Israelites practiced child sacrifice too. As I argue in chapter 6 of my book, the real motivations for the conquests were much more nefarious. It had more to do with land and the consolidation of political power than anything else.
Wouldn’t most Christians and Jews find this shocking?
Of course, and rightly so. It is shocking. I was shocked. But what I find even more shocking is the fact that some believers go to such great lengths to try to defend these genocides and moral atrocities. The same people who preach against the evils of abortion in the name of absolute, objective morality throw their absolute, objective morality out the window in order to defend the child-murders of an ancient tribe who thought they were doing the will of God. That’s what’s most shocking to me.
"Gospel law"???? LOL If ever I needed evidence that Christians have turned back the clock to change Christianity back into legalsitic religion like that of the Pharisees, these words would nail it!
Using words (like the word "law") to people who define those words one way without stating that you have decided to define them differently than they do is tactic of deception. In other words, the OP is calling Jesus a sneaking dishonest LIAR.
What then of all the laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy prohibiting things like personal grooming? These were laws given to the Jewish people and there is NOTHING in it anywhere saying these laws apply to anyone else. So no, Jesus did not come to abolish these laws. It was not His task to convert the Jewish people into Gentiles.
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The law that Jesus CAME NOT TO ABOLISH is the GOSPEL'S LAW
