Once Saved Always saved, Is this a hyper grace doctrine? (salvation, spiritual)
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Mike, if we truly believe in Him as our LORD and Savior, we will love Him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. He said in Luke 8:[21] And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
He also said in John 14:[14] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[24] HE THAT LOVETH ME NOT KEEPETH NOT MY SAYINGS and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
How can we say we truly believe in Him, but that we do not love Him. THESE ARE THE WORDS OF JESUS HIMSELF THAT IF WE LOVE HIM WE WILL KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS
Don't assume that just because I recognize that eternal life is a free gift which is given upon asking, and that it does not depend on obedience or works, that I advocate willful sinning. You fail to recognize the distinction between justification and sanctification, the difference between eternal salvation and discipleship. You think they are one and the same. They are not. But I have already gone over this sufficiently on this thread and you have disregarded it.
Last edited by Michael Way; 03-14-2015 at 07:39 AM..
Don't assume that just because I recognize that eternal life is a free gift which is given upon asking, and that it does not depend on obedience or works, that I advocate willful sinning. You fail to recognize the distinction between justification and sanctification, the difference between eternal salvation and discipleship. You think they are one and the same. They are not. But I have already gone over this sufficiently on this thread and you have disregarded it.
Mike, you have disregarded the words of Jesus. IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENS
If we say we believe on Him and do not keep His commandments, that is reason to say we do not love Him, by His own standards. I like His standard rather than accepting yours.
Mike, you have disregarded the words of Jesus. IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENS
If we say we believe on Him and do not keep His commandments, that is reason to say we do not love Him, by His own standards. I like His standard rather than accepting yours.
I really don't care what you think I have disregarded. The Bible teaches salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. Not by works or by commandment keeping. Works and commandment keeping belong to the spiritual life after salvation. They are not the means of obtaining eternal salvation.
I really don't care what you think I have disregarded. The Bible teaches salvation by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. Not by works or by commandment keeping. Works and commandment keeping belong to the spiritual life after salvation. They are not the means of obtaining eternal salvation.
And you are dedicated to the idea that you can have faith without commitment to the things that Jesus said were essential in a believer in spite of all the indications that it is not faith at all, why?
And you are dedicated to the idea that you can have faith without commitment to the things that Jesus said were essential in a believer in spite of all the indications that it is not faith at all, why?
You absolutely can have saving faith and eternal life without commitment. Jesus did not teach eternal salvation from the penalty of sin by commitment. He said all you have to do is to ask for eternal life and it will be given to you. The Samaritan woman is a case in point.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."
As it says in Revelation 22:17;
Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Eternal life is free. It is given without cost just for the asking. Simply believe in the finished redemptive work of Christ on the cross and you have eternal life.
Of course a Christian should be committed to following Jesus. That is the means of becoming experientially sanctified. But commitment has nothing whatsoever to do with obtaining eternal salvation from the penalty of sin.
You absolutely can have saving faith and eternal life without commitment. Jesus did not teach eternal salvation from the penalty of sin by commitment. He said all you have to do is to ask for eternal life and it will be given to you. The Samaritan woman is a case in point.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."
As it says in Revelation 22:17;
Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Eternal life is free. It is given without cost just for the asking. Simply believe in the finished redemptive work of Christ on the cross and you have eternal life.
Of course a Christian should be committed to following Jesus. That is the means of becoming experientially sanctified. But commitment has nothing whatsoever to do with obtaining eternal salvation from the penalty of sin.
So, basically you are saying that what it says in one place is the whole of the conditions for salvation in spite of the fact that it gives other conditions in other places. The question is why do you claim that. Conditions for receiving a gift have nothing to do with whether it is free or not. Meeting conditions is not earning, and if it were, your condition of asking is at the same level.
You absolutely can have saving faith and eternal life without commitment. Jesus did not teach eternal salvation from the penalty of sin by commitment. He said all you have to do is to ask for eternal life and it will be given to you. The Samaritan woman is a case in point.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."
As it says in Revelation 22:17;
Revelation 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Eternal life is free. It is given without cost just for the asking. Simply believe in the finished redemptive work of Christ on the cross and you have eternal life.
Of course a Christian should be committed to following Jesus. That is the means of becoming experientially sanctified. But commitment has nothing whatsoever to do with obtaining eternal salvation from the penalty of sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
So, basically you are saying that what it says in one place is the whole of the conditions for salvation in spite of the fact that it gives other conditions in other places. The question is why do you claim that. Conditions for receiving a gift have nothing to do with whether it is free or not. Meeting conditions is not earning, and if it were, your condition of asking is at the same level.
It does not give other conditions for eternal salvation. You confuse what is required for eternal salvation with what is required for experiential sanctification. They are two different things as has already been stated.
It does not give other conditions for eternal salvation. You confuse what is required for eternal salvation with what is required for experiential sanctification. They are two different things as has already been stated.
Actually, no, I don't. You seem to be making a distinction without a difference. Salvation comes with commitment, not profession without change. And the question remains: Why do you stress this distinction?
Actually, no, I don't. You seem to be making a distinction without a difference. Salvation comes with commitment, not profession without change. And the question remains: Why do you stress this distinction?
Yes, you do confuse eternal salvation with experiential sanctification. And eternal salvation does not come with commitment which you have been shown from Scripture. A free gift does not involve commitment on the part of the person who receives the gift.
Actually, no, I don't. You seem to be making a distinction without a difference. Salvation comes with commitment, not profession without change. And the question remains: Why do you stress this distinction?
Isn't it funny that many must see a verse as clear and then reject any that expand on the clarity. Salvation is a Gift BUT it isn't a gift that just sits there, it requires assembly and use to be of any value.
I can give a sick person the medication they need but if they do not follow the instructions AND take it properly and regularly, it is of no value.
Everyone would like salvation to cost them nothing at all. The payment to God did not cost us, but when we call Jesus Lord, which means Master, it costs our life, which no belongs to him, and we must obey our master or he is not our Master, thus our confession was meaningless and no debt for us is paid.
People do not want to actually change and continually DO what they are told, just sit back and let God do it and .................. he waits for us to do it before applying the price. Matt 7:21. How does Jesus feel about such ones? Matt 7:23. Jesus has to claim us or our claim is of no value. Kinda like claiming the Publishers Clearing House price, they have to agree.
Last edited by expatCA; 03-14-2015 at 02:14 PM..
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