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As I previously noted I do believe faith is part of the message of Jesus. But works are the proof to others and to oneself that faith has taken hold of fertile ground and will yield fruit. No fruit, no seed of faith.
Salvation is more complicated than anyone thinks. The key to getting a glimpse of it is in Jesus' first and greatest sermon, the Sermon on the Mount. One would think if "faith" was His main message He would have mentioned it at least once in His initial message. Instead He preaches about who is blessed and why--by what they DO.
As I previously noted I do believe faith is part of the message of Jesus. But works are the proof to others and to oneself that faith has taken hold of fertile ground and will yield fruit. No fruit, no seed of faith.
You are right that Salvation is more complicated than it appears on the surface. We are not saved by our natural works which Isaiah says are as filthy rages in the sight of God. God sees down to the depth of our heart and Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is not motivating our works in and through us they are not recognized by God. If His Spirit is directing our works, they are accepted by the Lord. Jesus said in Luke 17:[9] Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. [10] So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
Since it is the Holy Spirit that is doing the works, we have nothing of which we can boast.
It is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit -which the Apostles said in Acts 5:32 that God gives to THOSE WHO OBEY HIM - which makes it possible for a committed Christian TO OBEY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST'S COMMANDMENTS.
Last edited by Robert M Prince; 03-09-2015 at 01:05 PM..
No, Vizio. One must not necessarily ask that question. As a matter of fact, if you ask it, it implies that you want to make sure you don't do any more than is supposedly "required." It reminds of me a high school student who asks his teacher how many points he has to get on the final exam in order to pass. If the teacher says, "60 out of 100 will give you a passing grade," the student works just hard enough to get 60 points.
Actually, I asked it because if one holds to the idea that good deeds are required to earn or maintain salvation, we should be concerned with how much we need to do--so that one can do enough. It would be horrible to come up just short of what is needed.
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Why do you think those of us who believe in the importance of faithfulness to Jesus Christ is to be quantifiably measured?
Because if your faith is in anything other than Jesus alone, we need to be able to know how to accomplish it. John wrote in 1 John 5:13 that we CAN know for certain. One can't KNOW if one has done enough if one can't measure it.
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When we stand before God to be judged, He isn't going to put your sins on one side of the scale and your good works on the other and then see which one weighs the most. He's going to look at your heart, at your commitment. That isn't all that complicated, and I'm sure that if you wanted to understand the concept, you're intelligent enough to be able to. Are you genuinely desirous of living a life wherein your focus is on lifting up your fellow man and on letting the goodness of your heart shine through in such a way that your Father in Heaven will be glorified through your actions? If you are, then is "enough." If you're not, it isn't.
While that is theoretically possible, when the rubber meets the road it is not going to happen, so what is the point in the distinction? When the only example that can be given is that of the thief on the cross, all emphasizing the position without stressing the commitment to live in love can do is make some who think they believe the correct doctrine comfortable in not doing anything to demonstrate their position in Christ. So, back to the question, how do you "spur" your congregation "to love and good deeds?"
I think we're on the same page, actually. Jesus does save us completely, 100%. Our good deeds do nothing to make him love us more, or less. Having said that, the idea of a Christian that DOESN'T love his neighbor, love God, etc....is an oxymoron. While we are not saved by those good deeds....those good deeds will be present in the life of a Christian.
Martin Luther said it best, I think: "Faith alone, but not a faith that is alone".
Actually, I asked it because if one holds to the idea that good deeds are required to earn or maintain salvation, we should be concerned with how much we need to do--so that one can do enough. It would be horrible to come up just short of what is needed.
I don't know whether or not you saw my reply to another post you made on another thread, but you proved to me through that post that you know the answer to this question as well as I do. You can stop asking the question now; it's been answered and you do understand the answer.
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Because if your faith is in anything other than Jesus alone, we need to be able to know how to accomplish it. John wrote in 1 John 5:13 that we CAN know for certain. One can't KNOW if one has done enough if one can't measure it.
Of course we can. Commitment (or "attitude," which was the word you used in your other post) cannot be quantified by man, but it is something that God knows perfectly.
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Have you done that perfectly?
That all depends upon what you mean, Vizio. I can say that my commitment to my Savior is absolute and unwavering. Do I fall short at times? Of course I do; I'm only human. But through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, I am assured that I can wake up each morning with the knowledge that as long as I'm doing my best, and repenting whenever I do something I know to be wrong, I am assured of His mercy and forgiveness. Am I perfect on my own? Absolutely not. Am I "perfect in Christ"? I believe I am, because together, I am something I could never be on my own.
While we are not saved by those good deeds....those good deeds will be present in the life of a Christian.
I would agree with this, but would also ask, "If those good deeds are not present in the life of a professed Christian, what does that tell us?"
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