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Your words: He'll look at these lip-service Christians and will ask them why they failed to keep His commandments.
So, what happens to them?
Thanks for sharing your view.
I do not agree that happens to born again believers, but we can agree to disagree.
Did it happen to the thief on the cross? His only "work" was believe Jesus was the messiah.
Well if anyone finds themselves nailed up next to Jesus we know they can be saved. Other than that, it does not apply to much else. Oh the man also knew Jesus' work as he was a Jew and he would have heard about him, so not completely ignorant as he also knew Jesus was innocent and admitted to his sinning deserving of death. He had enough knowledge to act in faith in a public manner. That is the example, not that ONLY a confession of faith is needed by anyone.
This reveals that you do NOT believe that Jesus saved us. You actually think WE save ourselves by what we do or do not do . . . think or do not think . . . believe or do not believe. Try to understand . . . we have nothing to do with our salvation . . . Christ did that. It is finished. We are responsible for our sanctification under His love for us all. That is why we are to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Thanks for throwing in the universalist spin. Hope you have a great day.
PS Your statements about my beliefs are not correct.
I apologize if they are not . . . they are extracted from your posts. IF you do NOT actually think WE save ourselves by what we do or do not do . . . think or do not think . . . believe or do not believe . . . then what DO you think our role is in being saved or not saved? You DO think that we are saved or not depending upon something WE do or do not do, right????
I apologize if they are not . . . they are extracted from your posts. IF you do NOT actually think WE save ourselves by what we do or do not do . . . think or do not think . . . believe or do not believe . . . then what DO you think our role is in being saved or not saved? You DO think that we are saved or not depending upon something WE do or do not do, right????
You know I am not a Universalist, but this is one heck of a fine argument. Kudos. I'm going to have to think about it.
I apologize if they are not . . . they are extracted from your posts. IF you do NOT actually think WE save ourselves by what we do or do not do . . . think or do not think . . . believe or do not believe . . . then what DO you think our role is in being saved or not saved? You DO think that we are saved or not depending upon something WE do or do not do, right????
Jesus saves. Period. As usual you misrepresent other people's views. I never said we save ourselves, and I also never said there is nothing we need to do. Jesus said we are saved by our faith. If faith equates to works in your eyes, then so be it. Cool beans.
It's interesting that first you say we must work, and now you say there is nothing we need to do. It's a bit of a universalist dilemma isn't it? Since you believe everyone is automatically saved, then obviously there is nothing anyone needs to do, and there is nothing they need to believe or hear. You can kill a million people and go to your grave cursing God, and no problem. This is extracted from your posts, and of course it is a complete contradiction to what Jesus Christ taught.
I apologize if they are not . . . they are extracted from your posts. IF you do NOT actually think WE save ourselves by what we do or do not do . . . think or do not think . . . believe or do not believe . . . then what DO you think our role is in being saved or not saved? You DO think that we are saved or not depending upon something WE do or do not do, right????
I apologize if they are not . . . they are extracted from your posts. IF you do NOT actually think WE save ourselves by what we do or do not do . . . think or do not think . . . believe or do not believe . . . then what DO you think our role is in being saved or not saved? You DO think that we are saved or not depending upon something WE do or do not do, right????
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Jesus saves. Period. As usual you misrepresent other people's views. I never said we save ourselves, and I also never said there is nothing we need to do. Jesus said we are saved by our faith. If faith equates to works in your eyes, then so be it. Cool beans.
It's interesting that first you say we must work, and now you say there is nothing we need to do. It's a bit of a universalist dilemma isn't it? Since you believe everyone is automatically saved, then obviously there is nothing anyone needs to do, and there is nothing they need to believe or hear. You can kill a million people and go to your grave cursing God, and no problem. This is extracted from your posts, and of course it is a complete contradiction to what Jesus Christ taught.
You really do not understand the universalist view, Finn. The problem comes from equating salvation from eternal separation from God with no consequences. As even Mike555 will tell you . . . we all will have eternal life. What differs is what it will be like for us. We will reap whatever we sow and have not repented of . . . no more and no less. Mike believes there is magic in claiming to believe ABOUT Jesus whatever he thinks we are supposed to believe. The only magic would be in how it affects us. If it makes us love God and each other every day and repent when we don't . . . then it will make a difference . . . BUT NOT about our salvation. We have NOTHING whatsoever to do with our salvation.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-12-2015 at 05:36 PM..
The problem is in distinguishing between "good deeds" and the "work" assigned to Christian. They are different issues. As an example Charitable deeds/works are to be done in hiding as it were, while the works Christ commanded are to be done in public view.
Look at the apostles as examples and recount their good deeds and what their works publiclly were. Two different things.
I've got to disagree with you. I think you're making a distinction where you really have no reason to. To me, any time we do good for an unselfish reason, we are doing a "good deed" or "works of righteousness." Jesus gave so many examples of how we are to serve our fellow human beings. I don't think it's as important to Him that we necessarily "hide" them as that we do not do them for show. He wants our obedience to Him to be out of love and done with the purpose of glorifying our Father in Heaven. I'm sorry, but I simply cannot understand how anyone could disagree with such a clear teaching. Obviously, though, people have their own way of interpreting His words.
I do not agree that happens to born again believers, but we can agree to disagree.
Well, that would be a first, but I am definitely glad to hear it.
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Did it happen to the thief on the cross? His only "work" was believe Jesus was the messiah.
I see Matthew 20 as addressing this issue. It's the chapter about the laborers in the vineyard who were not even hired until the eleventh hour but received the same pay as those who had worked all day. A person cannot be expected to be committed to Christ before he's even heard of Him. Surely, Christ knew the thief's heart and would have taken his situation into account.
There is also another possibility: The thief referred to Christ as "Lord." I've always thought it was kind of odd that he would have done so if the hours they hung dying together were the first time they'd ever met. We really know nothing at all about the thief except that he had stolen something and was being crucified for his crime. For all we know, he'd lived a reasonably good life, had heard Jesus preach at some time, and believed Him and even followed Him, and then in a weak moment had stolen something and gotten caught. (We all know how ruthless the Romans were in punishing the Jews for breaking pretty much any law.) People make so many assumptions about him when the scriptures really give us almost no information about him.
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