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If everyone were saved, then it would not be necessary for Christ to die upon the cross.
If everyone were saved, then Jesus would be a liar when He said only a few would be saved.
If everyone were saved, then it wouldn't be necessary to cram Calvinist dogma down their throats.
If everyone were saved, then there would never be wars violence and licentiousness upon the earth.
If everyone were saved, there would be no hell - and the Bible is very explicit that there is such a destiny for those who deny Christ.
If everyone were saved, it would not be necessary for the Bible to encourage people to make a choice for righteousness.
In point of fact, all Calvinist dogma is based upon the false presumption of the total depravity of man. The Bible does not teach that man is totally depraved. Man is encouraged to choose God's way. Total depravity states that no such choice is possible.
The Bible says that man is born with the tendency to sin, not that he is guilty from birth of it. If true, then according to Calvinist dogma every dead baby would go to hell.
According to Mosaic law, an offering of thanksgiving was to be made for the birth of a baby, NOT a sin offering. This is recognition BY THE LAW that a baby is NOT born totally depraved. A baby that dies, therefore, is innocent of sin and goes to live with God because of that. Calvinist propaganda would condemn the child to hell automatically and then give a phony reason for their heinous declaration.
Man is not totally depraved.
There is no indication in the LAW that he is. If man were indeed totally depraved there would be no possibility of his accepting Jesus Christ as his saviour. To this end Calvinists invent additional exceptions to their own rule. Would you play poker with people like this? Would you buy a car from someone who changed the rules as he went along? You'd be a fool if you did and you'd be a fool to believe Calvinist ideology.
Calvinism is a lie of the devil and those who transmit the doctrine seek to make men twice as fit for hell as they are themselves.
and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
I do not like it when Christians give each other wedgies over issues of faith.
You couldn't be more wrong. Jesus never said He was dying for anyone's sins. Your interpretation is corrupt.
Not really. I couldn't be more correct. Jesus told the apostle Paul that He died for all mankind. All mankind have been died for. And He told Paul He ransomed all mankind (1 Tim.2:6) and it is for that reason that "God will have all mankind to be saved" (1 Tim.2:4).
Originally Posted by Eusebius God would be found to be a liar since He told us He "will have all mankind to be saved" (1 Tim.2:4-6) because Christ ransomed all.
Therefore, if I am wrong, God is wrong.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
God is not wrong. You are wrong, because you are cherry picking one verse (which you do not understand),
The only way God could not be wrong is if He saves all mankind as He said He will do in 1 Timothy 2:4-6.
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while ignoring 200 other verses which say what God taught: "whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life".
While you ignore Genesis 1:1 all the way to Revelation 22:21.
Jesus never said the English word "eternal." You can't seem to get that. Jesus told His disciples to beware the teachings of the Pharisees and Sadducees. The Pharisees taught eternal torment. The Sadducees taught eternal annihilation.
This is your problem. According to the "all are saved" theory, there is no hurry. What are your pressuring her for? She will be saved.
God certainly isn't in a hurry to save all mankind. He has been saving very specific individuals since Christ died, for eonian life.
I'm not pressuring her.
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There is a big inconsistency in the message of all are saved, and preaching that people need Christ for salvation. They don't NEED to believe anything. They will be saved.
They will see Christ died for all their sins. It just takes time.
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We are not talking behavior or doctrine... strictly salvation. Why does anybody NEED Christ right now if all we be saved?
If Christ didn't die for our sins, no one could be saved.
If everyone were saved, then it would not be necessary for Christ to die upon the cross.
If everyone were saved, then Jesus would be a liar when He said only a few would be saved.
If everyone were saved, then it wouldn't be necessary to cram Calvinist dogma down their throats.
If everyone were saved, then there would never be wars violence and licentiousness upon the earth.
If everyone were saved, there would be no hell - and the Bible is very explicit that there is such a destiny for those who deny Christ.
If everyone were saved, it would not be necessary for the Bible to encourage people to make a choice for righteousness.
What you are basically saying is Christ's death did nothing but make salvation a possibility rather than a reality.
The point you are missing is this: "God will have all mankind to be saved . . . for . . . Christ gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim.2:4-6).
Too bad you don't believe God but rather your own man-made religious views.
If Christ did not die for mankind, not one of mankind could be saved let along all mankind.
Not really. I couldn't be more correct. Jesus told the apostle Paul that He died for all mankind. All mankind have been died for. And He told Paul He ransomed all mankind (1 Tim.2:6) and it is for that reason that "God will have all mankind to be saved" (1 Tim.2:4).
While I hope you are correct about God saving all, it is not something Jesus "said." Your quotes are about what Paul believed, and some of what Paul believed puts Jesus by the ear to the ground, as in Paul said to pray for your enemies so that you may heap burning coals on their heads. What Jesus said about loving your enemies was that God blesses the good and the evil EQUALLY, which may indeed be another feather in the cap of universalism.
I've not reached that point. But I'm also not in the camp of many fundamentalists who like to gleefully embrace the vengeful God of the OT.
But mix up Paul's thoughts with Jesus' words is also heresy. We aren't even completely sure of all Jesus' words because they grow and expand through the Synoptics until we are very sure the church was influencing His words in the gospel of John. If Paul's writings as a converted Pharisee are equivalent to the words of Jesus, so are mine--and yours---although I have a more solid feeling about my own!
That is why His grace is not with you. It is with God's people who actually believe God. You don't.
Oh well, there you go telling others who is, and isn't a believer.
You do this every time you can't explain something.
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