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Contending For The Faith -- A Response to Don Hewey's "Rebuttal" to Questions Without Answers (http://gtft.org/Library/condon/QuestionsWithoutAnswers.htm - broken link)
Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following: Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”
A little test about the word "ALL" that's found in Scripture.
If Truth is changed to not be all inclusive, when the context renders that it should be it then becomes error.
Reconsider the following Scriptures, without using any preconceived thoughts or forced interpretation upon them. This may be more difficult to do than first realized, because we all resort to an immediate interpretation of something based on our past understandings of the verse.
The darkest doctrine ever devised by men was that of an "eternal suffering" for the billions of souls that die lost without Christ.
Like wolves among the sheep, carnally-minded men within the church system found it very effective to use the fear of an unending hell to control the masses that enter their religion.
Unfortunately this doctrine has remained at large in Christianity as a whole.
The Lord Jesus said, "When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to myself." - John 12:32
God wills that all mankind be saved (1 Tim 2:4)
Operating all in accord with counsel of His will (Eph 1:11)
In Adam all dying; in Christ shall all be vivified (1 Cor 15:21-23)
It says "in Christ shall all," not "all who are in Christ."
One offense for all mankind for condemnation... (Rom 5:18-19)
Lamb of God taking away sin of the world (John 1:29)
Correspondent ransom for all (1 Tim 2:6)
Every knee bowing in the Name of Jesus (Phil 2:9; Is 45:23)
“in” is the literal Greek translation. See Young’s Literal Translation
and every tongue acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord.
And we know that anyone who acclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord,
especially when it is to God's glory without any hypocrisy is saved for 1Corinthians 12:3 says so.
Locks all in stubbornness; to be merciful to all (Rom 11:30-32)
All created ... to reconcile all (Col 1:16-20)
He should be tasting death for the sake of everyone (Heb 2:9)
That the world might be saved thru Him (John 3:17)
God was in Christ conciliating the world to Himself (2 Cor 5:18)
For our sins, not ours only but the whole world (1 John 2:2)
Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-11-2009 at 01:42 PM..
Reason: spacing
I think it's worth repeating here that all of beloved57's arguments are refuted here.
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED Bible Threatenings Explained
eg. scroll down and click on DESTROY SOUL AND BODY IN HELL
She says she doesn't have the time or interest to look at it since she already knows the truth for sure.
That's her choice.
But for anyone who does check it out they will find that there are no scriptures that support the idea that God will let anyone suffer forever.
Like I said before, anyone is welcome to believe anything they want to about what the Bible teaches including beloved57.
But people who cannot love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will discover that all of the arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been refuted in the following links.
You might like to be aware of the evidence why some of us think that the Bible teaches universal salvation rather than annihilation.
An online book that shows why we believe the Bible teaches universal salvation rather than annihilation is ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch.
WILL UNBELIEVERS BE ANNIHILATED - chapters three and four
(If necessary copy and paste the following url into your browser address bar) Lighthouse Library International - ALL IN ALL, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author
For example, two are
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION ONE STEP OUT OF HELL Eternal Death (Annihilation): One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory
Or
JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE WORD DESTRUCTION?
Just What Do You Mean By The Word DESTRUCTION? (http://hell-fact-or-fable.com/destruction3.html - broken link)
Here is an intro to the book
ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch (222 pages)
Concordant Publishing Concern Concordant Publishing Concern
Introduction:
"The blood of Christ is the basis of all blessing. The purpose of God determines human destiny. It does not depend on our deserts. The plan or process of God during the eons or ages must be distinguished from His purpose which will not be fully accomplished until the eons are past. Herein lies the difference between the teaching of the Scriptures and the accepted creeds of Christendom.
The believer suffers in the current era because of sin, but will be released in the resurrection at the presence of Christ. The unbeliever will have affliction and anguish for his sins in the judgment, but he also becomes reconciled to God at the consummation, through the blood of Christ’s cross. (Col.1-20).
Universal reconciliation is the glorious goal toward which all leads. All of God’s purpose is achieved through Him Who is the Alpha and the Omega (Rev.1:8). “In Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him [God delights] to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens” (Col.1:19,20)
The terms translated “forever” and “everlasting” and “never” are human perversions which could never have deceived us if they had been consistently rendered. They denote definite divisions of time called ages or eons. All together they form a distinct portion of time called eonian times. Much in our common creeds is true if confined within the eons, but it is most malignant error when forced beyond the eons.
Since judgment is not eternal, but eonian, we may accept all the solemn threats of death and condemnation without reservation, while happily exulting in God’s grand goal to which all His labors lead: that God may be All in All (1Cor.15:28)."
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-11-2009 at 01:44 PM..
Reason: spacing
I am not going to waste my time reading a bunch of garbage and lies..:ok:
Jesus says: "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word." (Jn 8:43, AV) YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WON'T HEAR.
"We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error." (1 Jn 4:6, AV) DEMONIC BONDAGE TO DECEPTION IS KNOWN BY THE INABILITY TO LISTEN.
BE AN HEARER OR BE IN ERROR!
Job 33:14-18, (AV)...
14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
17 That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.
18 He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.
God opens our ears to hear. The devil is the destroyer, robbing us of hearing.
One of the great Christian Biblical Universalist of the last century was A.E. Knoch.
My attitude towards beloved57 is summed up beautifully by his words.
An eternal torment critic said "Mr. Knoch and his colleagues will yet have to answer to God for so defiantly opposing the plain teachings of God's holy word."
In reply A.E. Knoch wrote:
"Let me assure our brother, beloved by the Lord, that we fully expect to answer to God for all our acts, and will rejoice to see all that is not of God destroyed by the fiery test of that day. But such threats do not alarm us in the least. We know a God of transcendent grace. It is only natural for one who thinks Him capable of tormenting His own creatures eternally, to seek to follow His example, and torture His servants here and now. Indeed, it would be strange if it were not so.
The character of the God you worship will determine your ways and your words. We trust it will be so with us also, for we would delight to be like Him. Hence, we do not threaten you with His wrath, but commend you to His grace.
Perhaps no sin can be so great as to distort His words and defame His character. But His grace is superbly sufficient, His love is lavish in its long-suffering. It never lapses, but looks longingly for the reconciliation which is the justification and crown of all His ways with His creatures.
So, as we close with the absolute certainty of a reconciliation between us, we anticipate it on our part and throw all enmity aside. We are conciliated no matter what you do. We recall with joy and satisfaction the great truth that, by God's grace, it is impossible for you to enter into condemnation, no matter how much you may offend Him (Rom.8:1) and the still greater truth that we are saved for grace (Eph.2:8). While your words and ways have seemed to us to be offensively unlike His, this only gives greater ground for grace. This of itself justifies them, for grace must have a foil.
We close, then, with a prayer for such an outpouring of His grace on your own head as will force you to feel the affection which is found in Him for all the creatures of His hand and heart." A.E. Knoch
On post #152, beloved 57 said "be prepared to give an account to God."
The above quote from A.E. Knoch (perhaps the best known Christian Biblical Universalist of the last century) demonstrates how he responded to a similar warning.
A universalist friend recently reminded me that one must be disposed of the Ultimate Placer to receive any revelation; it’s all about Sovereign causes & effects.
Or as Ralph Waldo Emerson put it, “People only see what they are prepared to see.”
THE WRITINGS OF DOZENS OF TEACHERS OF CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
Copy and paste into Google
GOD’S TRUTH FOR TODAY LIBRARY
God's Truth For Today! - Author Index (http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html - broken link)
and
IN THE GARDEN
In The Garden - Index (http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html - broken link)
Well known Christian church leaders who believed and taught Biblical universalism down through the centuries.
Including a separate list of famous people embracing Christian universalism. http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/Universalists.html
One of the great Christian Biblical Universalist of the last century was A.E. Knoch.
My attitude towards beloved57 is summed up beautifully by his words.
An eternal torment critic said "Mr. Knoch and his colleagues will yet have to answer to God for so defiantly opposing the plain teachings of God's holy word."
In reply A.E. Knoch wrote:
"Let me assure our brother, beloved by the Lord, that we fully expect to answer to God for all our acts, and will rejoice to see all that is not of God destroyed by the fiery test of that day. But such threats do not alarm us in the least. We know a God of transcendent grace. It is only natural for one who thinks Him capable of tormenting His own creatures eternally, to seek to follow His example, and torture His servants here and now. Indeed, it would be strange if it were not so.
The character of the God you worship will determine your ways and your words. We trust it will be so with us also, for we would delight to be like Him. Hence, we do not threaten you with His wrath, but commend you to His grace.
Perhaps no sin can be so great as to distort His words and defame His character. But His grace is superbly sufficient, His love is lavish in its long-suffering. It never lapses, but looks longingly for the reconciliation which is the justification and crown of all His ways with His creatures.
So, as we close with the absolute certainty of a reconciliation between us, we anticipate it on our part and throw all enmity aside. We are conciliated no matter what you do. We recall with joy and satisfaction the great truth that, by God's grace, it is impossible for you to enter into condemnation, no matter how much you may offend Him (Rom.8:1) and the still greater truth that we are saved for grace (Eph.2:8). While your words and ways have seemed to us to be offensively unlike His, this only gives greater ground for grace. This of itself justifies them, for grace must have a foil.
We close, then, with a prayer for such an outpouring of His grace on your own head as will force you to feel the affection which is found in Him for all the creatures of His hand and heart." A.E. Knoch
For more than twenty years the writings of William Mealand and Donald Hayter (both Christian Biblical Universalists) have been a great blessing to me!
Both the GRACE AND TRUTH magazine from Nottingham, England,
and UNSEARCHABLE RICHES magazine from THE CONCORDANT PUBLISHING CONCERN have published many of their writings through the years.
For your enjoyment and edification, many of them are also recorded at
IN THE GARDEN
In The Garden - Index (http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html - broken link)
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Scriptural proofs that the Bible teaches universal salvation
