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Old 07-12-2009, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,407,289 times
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SALVATION OUT OF THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED – SOME THROUGH THE FIRE – BUT ALL THROUGH THE BLOOD

Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
Chapter Eleven

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

According to the Bible everyone is going to heaven - some through the fire, but all through the blood.
The Law of Circularity

We should desire to experience the lake of fire if God sees that is what we need. That's how much we can relax in the arms of God's love.

It is God’s decretive will (that which MUST occur) that everyone violates His preceptive will (that which they OUGHT to do) as much as they actually do because each person is being fitted into God’s master plan in a way that necessitates their own individual experience with sin, evil and suffering. Then when God consummates His plan for the ages of time He will eradicate sin and suffering from existence after everyone has learned all that God wants them to learn from its temporary existence.
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.

The process of salvation will be completed for the firstfruits of election, (the remnant chosen by grace), after the first resurrection. The process of salvation will be completed for the non-elect after the great white throne judgment. For some, it will include an experience in the lake of fire.
But everyone will be saved out of the lake of fire which is the second death.

You may ask, “What scriptural evidence is there of being saved out of the lake of fire which is the second death?"

There actually is much evidence.

Although the book of Revelation is the last book placed in the Bible, it is not the final revelation of what God is going to do with humanity. The apostle Paul saw way beyond John.
Col.1:25 of which I became a dispenser, in accord with the administration of God, which is granted to me for you, to complete the word of God.

There is much evidence that Paul did see way beyond John. For instance, in Revelation there are still kings reigning, and Christ is still reigning along with His followers. There are still sovereignties and powers in force throughout the book of revelation. So John did not see the day when all sovereignty, authority and power would be done away. Paul did. If you will look at 1Corinthians 15:24-28 Paul saw the day when all of these would be done away. He sees the day when "He should be nullifying all sovereignty, authority and power" (vs.24)

Paul sees the day when Christ will quit reigning (vs.25).

Paul sees the day when death (all death which includes the second death) will be abolished (vs.26). Please remember that death will be abolished **after** all the sovereignties, authorities and powers in Revelation have been nullified. Within the book of Revelation, death is still operational as are the afore mentioned powers.

So what is going to happen to all these people who are in death when death is abolished?
They will come forth vivified (made alive beyond the reach of death) (1Cor.15:22).
They will have their lives justified and will be constituted righteous:
Romans 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying.
Romans 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.

All will be reconciled to God (Col.1:20)
All will be headed up in Christ (Eph.1:10)
All will bow the knee in the name of Jesus and acclaim with their tongue that "Jesus Christ is Lord" to the glory of God, the Father (Phil.2:9-11).
And we know that anyone who acclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord, especially when it is to God's glory without any hypocrisy is saved for 1Corinthians 12:3 says so.

So there is proof that people will go to the second death **when ** the new earth comes. And there is proof that this is not the final goal God has for these people.

In summary then:
The lake of fire is the second death.
The apostle John did not see into the future as far as the apostle Paul.
How do I know this? and what ramifications does this have as to whether or not one gets out of the lake of fire...the second death? Plenty.
In the book of revelation Christ is still reigning; death is still operational; sovereignties, authorities and powers are still in force.
In 1Cor.15:22-28 Paul sees way beyond John's revelation.
He sees the day when Christ will quit reigning (1Cor.15:25).
He sees the day when all sovereignties, authorities and powers are nullified (1Cor.15:24).
He sees the day when death is abolished (1Cor.15:26) and all are then subjected to Christ then Christ is subjected to God and then God is All in all (1Cor.15:28).
So, yes, there is scripture which intimates that all in the lake of fire will come forth and God will be All in all.
Also in 1Cor.15:22 all are dying and in Christ shall all be vivified. So this happens after death for most.
Also in Romans 5:18,19 you have what happens to all mankind due to what Adam did which happens to the exact same all mankind due to what Christ did. But it does not happen to all at the exact same time.
Each in his own order.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/sa...fFire-Eby.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/sa...on-heavens.htm

Savior of the World Series

Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire which is the second death taught in the scriptures?

The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death Rev.20:14; 21:8. In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).

It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the, fifteen chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.

The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.

What do you suppose the lake that burns with fire and brimstone will do? It will burn off of mankind the stubborn will which is contrary to the Lord’s will. It will take that which the Lord subjected man to, death, and will burn its bonds off. The flames of fire will lick the lashes of cords that have bound men in rebellion and will dispose of those cords as one would burn refuse in a hot scorching fire. It is the rebellious will, maintained by ignorance that is burned. The same standard of burning happens to the Overcomer. They are baptized in the very same fire. The fire that constitutes the lake that burns with fire and brimstone and the fire upon the brow of the Overcomer are the very same kind of fire. In both cases, whether it be the Overcomer or the unrepentant sinner, the cords of ignorance as to the will of the Lord are burned off. Such is the ordination in fire, no one will escape it who needs it.
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Old 07-12-2009, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,407,289 times
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Default Matthew 25:41 and 46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
If there is salvation on the day of Judgment, why does Jesus say this to so many people on the day of Judgement?

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
46. Then they will go away to eternal punsihment, but the righteous to eternal life."
SEE

Matthew 25:41 and 46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.

Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve of
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY A BIBLICAL STUDY
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/time/

Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-12-2009 at 11:33 PM..
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Old 07-12-2009, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
3,153 posts, read 3,407,289 times
Reputation: 259
Default Bible threatenings explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt View Post
I think this is an appropriate time to repeat what I said before.
ALL of the arguments that beloved57 has posted on this entire thread have been refuted in this link.
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
Bible Threatenings Explained

Beloved57 says he doesn't have time to read that "garbage" because there is no possibility that he doesn't already know the truth for sure.

That is his choice.

But for those who may be interested, I want everyone to know that the contents of that link demonstrate that there simply are no scriptures in the entire Bible that support the idea that God will let anyone suffer forever or be annihilated.
And that includes his most recent arguments.
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Old 07-12-2009, 11:52 PM
 
106 posts, read 136,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
The greek word for everlasting, eternal is aionios, and its meaning has been defined by the Holy Ghost..

Here is one scripture to examine 2 cor 4:

18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Here we have a differnce between things seen and things not seen, things temporal and things eternal:

Now it is obvious that if the things temporal should last forever, there would be no opposite between them and things that are eternal..hence it is equally obvious that if things eternal, are merely age long, then they cannot be contrasted with things that are temporal..There is a difference pointed out in the verse between things temporal and things eternal as it is with things seen and things not seen..

And yet false teachers say there is an end to eternal punishment..
Actually, all this would really say is this: things we can see only last temporarily within this age, but the unseen things last throughout the entire age. Which is true. God definitely lasts for an age. But he also lasts eternally.

Another note: Paul may have been talking about the age-lasting glory/life that would be the result of their persevering through their temporal and seeable troubles. You can't see glory and life, but it definitely lasts for an age, that is, beyond your temporal ordeals. As opposed to being able to see your current situation/troubles/physical problems, which are only temporary.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:06 AM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,391,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domoman View Post
Actually, all this would really say is this: things we can see only last temporarily within this age, but the unseen things last throughout the entire age. Which is true. God definitely lasts for an age. But he also lasts eternally.

Another note: Paul may have been talking about the age-lasting glory/life that would be the result of their persevering through their temporal and seeable troubles. You can't see glory and life, but it definitely lasts for an age, that is, beyond your temporal ordeals. As opposed to being able to see your current situation/troubles/physical problems, which are only temporary.
You still rejecting truth..
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:07 AM
 
106 posts, read 136,043 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
You still rejecting truth..
Is that your favorite line? LOL
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:31 AM
 
Location: NC
14,882 posts, read 17,160,264 times
Reputation: 1527
Quote:
Actually, all this would really say is this: things we can see only last temporarily within this age, but the unseen things last throughout the entire age. Which is true. God definitely lasts for an age. But he also lasts eternally.

Another note: Paul may have been talking about the age-lasting glory/life that would be the result of their persevering through their temporal and seeable troubles. You can't see glory and life, but it definitely lasts for an age, that is, beyond your temporal ordeals. As opposed to being able to see your current situation/troubles/physical problems, which are only temporary.
Agree, Domoman.


2 Cor. 4
17for the momentary light matter of our tribulation, more and more exceedingly an age-during weight of glory doth work out for us --
18we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen [are] temporary, but the things not seen [are] age-during. (YLT)




God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-13-2009 at 01:03 AM..
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:33 AM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,391,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domoman View Post
Is that your favorite line? LOL

Why you say that ? I have given much scripture in this thread, you reject it..
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:38 AM
 
Location: NC
14,882 posts, read 17,160,264 times
Reputation: 1527
Quote:
In summary then:
The lake of fire is the second death.
The apostle John did not see into the future as far as the apostle Paul.
How do I know this? and what ramifications does this have as to whether or not one gets out of the lake of fire...the second death? Plenty.
In the book of revelation Christ is still reigning; death is still operational; sovereignties, authorities and powers are still in force.
In 1Cor.15:22-28 Paul sees way beyond John's revelation.
He sees the day when Christ will quit reigning (1Cor.15:25).
He sees the day when all sovereignties, authorities and powers are nullified (1Cor.15:24).
He sees the day when death is abolished (1Cor.15:26) and all are then subjected to Christ then Christ is subjected to God and then God is All in all (1Cor.15:28).
So, yes, there is scripture which intimates that all in the lake of fire will come forth and God will be All in all.
Also in 1Cor.15:22 all are dying and in Christ shall all be vivified. So this happens after death for most.
Also in Romans 5:18,19 you have what happens to all mankind due to what Adam did which happens to the exact same all mankind due to what Christ did. But it does not happen to all at the exact same time.
Each in his own order.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/sa...fFire-Eby.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/sa...on-heavens.htm

Savior of the World Series
Thank you for sharing, rodger. God bless.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:55 AM
 
Location: NC
14,882 posts, read 17,160,264 times
Reputation: 1527
Quote:
there is salvation on the day of Judgment, why does Jesus say this to so many people on the day of Judgement?

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

You can play with words all you want, yet the Scriptures are very clear as to what will occur on the day of judgement.
41Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers; (YLT)
46. Then they will go away to eternal punsihment, but the righteous to eternal life.



Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude
7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom"

16:53-55).

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer.
30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal
her wounds (Jer. 30:17).

The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until--
Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez.
16:53).

Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no
more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27 --until--the Lord will
"restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6).

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the
Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth
generation (Deut. 23:3):

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were
"everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered"
Hab. 3 3:6).

The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting"
priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was
superceded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews
7:14-18).

Many translations of the Bible inform us that God
would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings
8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.

The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant"
(Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the
first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians
3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13

Quote:
The inhabitants of the world who will learn rightenousness, are those who (willingly gave their life to God). Many, if not most of the world will refuse to do this. And they will be the one's commanded to depart into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels
.
Psalms 22:
27. All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28. For the kingdom is the LORD'S
And He rules over the nations.
29. All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive


Psalms 66
4. "All the earth will worship You,
And will sing praises to You;
They will sing praises to Your name." Selah


Psalms 68:18
You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives;
You have received gifts among men,
Even among the rebellious also, that the LORD God may dwell there


Zephaniah 3
8 "Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9. "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the LORD,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder


Quote:
This is why in Matthew 7 verse 13 and 14 state. "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and (MANY) enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a (FEW) find it.
Few will find life in this age and m any will go to destruction. Destruction is not the end, but part of the process. Eventually all will have life because it was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself. He will subject all to Himself so that God will be all in all. (Col. 1, 1 Cor. 15) God bless.
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