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Old 01-07-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,199,776 times
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You keep saying the god will judge people individually based on what they know. That's called a sliding scale. God doesn't hold everyone to the same standard? It sounds like you're just making stuff up as you go along.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
You keep saying the god will judge people individually based on what they know. That's called a sliding scale. God doesn't hold everyone to the same standard? It sounds like you're just making stuff up as you go along.
I never said that. I said, God will judge accordingly and of course He holds everyone to the same standard. I am the son of a pastor, I grew up in the church, most of my friends were Christian. All I heard was the gospel. My wife on the other hand is a former muslim, she has not received anywhere near the amount of gospel I received. If we both reject Christ and die in our sins then my punishment will be much worse than her's.

Another example, Jesus speaking in parables why? one reason was Jesus’ veiled the truth from unbelievers so in this way was both an act of judgment and an act of mercy. It was judgment because it kept them in the darkness that they loved
(John 3:19)
"19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil"

but it was mercy because they had already rejected the light, so any exposure to more truth would only increase their condemnation.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Canada
589 posts, read 1,348,791 times
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First of all when we die our spirits are unconscious, like in a deep sleep, until we are resurrected. People who died and never heard of the gospel will be given a chance to make the decision during the Great White Throne Judgment. They include the savages, babies who were aborted, children who died very young, the retarded, etc.

In Rev 20:11-12, notice there is a Book of Life to judge those who have heard the gospel and made their decision... and there are other books that will be opened... the purpose is not mentioned... but I think it is to teach those savages, aborted, retarded... the Truth and they will make their decision. That day is called a White Throne Judgment meaning every human will be JUDGED by God. It is a "judgment"... a fair and righteous decision God will make on each person because he knew everything.

The resurrected humans whose names are not in the Book of Life and those who have chosen to die in the White Throne Judgment, will die a final death in the Lake of Fire. Then the rest of mankind will be given eternal life because death and hell (meaning the grave) is no more... these are cast into the Lake of Fire. (Rev.20:14).

There is no such thing as a burning hell where the unsaved are now languishing. It was a concept that started by Dante's Inferno. The word "hell" in the Bible is really translated from the original word meaning a "grave" or a literal hole in the ground for burial. However, there is a Lake of Fire mentioned in the Bible where the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be thrown in after the Great Trib when Jesus Christ returns to rule in the Millennium. After the White Throne Judgment, Satan and his demons will be thrown in there too; since they are immortals and can't die, they will be tormented forever.

Last edited by wilvan; 01-07-2009 at 01:04 PM..
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,028,019 times
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Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
I don't know what it matters but yes I'm gay. That was actually one of the first things that really got me questioning why I believed what used to believe. Moving on...
Just thought I remembered that little tidbit, so it gives us a better understanding of your motivation.

Quote:
So if god apparently can reveal himself to anyone, anywhere in the planet there would surely be some other historic just as valid mentions of the Abrahamic god somewhere. And even if they were I doubt there would be a willingness to accept them as biblical to you christians. You might actually apply the same "they weren't there to hear it" logic that I'm using and refute any writings or stories of the Abrahamic god revealing himself and purpose in other parts of the world.
Actually you see remnants of the Abrahamic faith in just about every historic culture but slightly to extremely watered down or mythologized(hope that is the right word). You have cave drawings, temple stones, The tower of Babel was found and had reference to Hebrews, Gilgamesh, Hyroglific(excuse my spelling), oral traditions of many cultures in China, India, Africa, Native America, South America, even Eskimos. The problem is they are rejected by the secular world because they do not want to admitt to any connection.

Quote:
I call BS on the part of the pre-jesus Jews just getting into heaven based on their relationships with God. Didn't they have sacrifices of some sort to make? It wasn't just all based on a feeling.
Their faith saved them and the sacrifices were just obedience offerings representative of their faith which became legalistic and less faith based the closer they came to the arrival of Christ.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:08 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,716,016 times
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Originally Posted by wilvan View Post
First of all when we die our spirits are unconscious, like in a deep sleep, until we are resurrected. People who died and never heard of the gospel will be given a chance to make the decision during the Great White Throne Judgment. They include the savages, babies who were aborted, children who died very young, the retarded, etc.

In Rev 20:11-12, notice there is a Book of Life to judge those who have heard the gospel and made their decision... and there are other books that will be opened... the purpose is not mentioned... but I think it is to teach those savages, aborted, retarded... the Truth and they will make their decision. That day is called a White Throne Judgment meaning every human will be JUDGED by God. It is a "judgment"... a fair and righteous decision God will make on each person because he knew everything.

The resurrected humans whose names are not in the Book of Life and those who have chosen to die in the White Throne Judgment, will die a final death in the Lake of Fire. Then the rest of mankind will be given eternal life because death and hell (meaning the grave) is no more... these are cast into the Lake of Fire. (Rev.20:14).

There is no such thing as a burning hell where the unsaved are now languishing. It was a concept that started by Dante's Inferno. The word "hell" in the Bible is really translated from the original word meaning a "grave" or a literal hole in the ground for burial. However, there is a Lake of Fire mentioned in the Bible where the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be thrown in after the Great Trib when Jesus Christ returns to rule in the Millennium. After the White Throne Judgment, Satan and his demons will be thrown in there too; since they are immortals and can't die, they will be tormented forever.
Morman or JW? Well if you are right, I get a second chance but if I am right you are damned and WILL go to hell for all eternity. You better be absolutely positive. I don't have to be because it's a win win situation for me.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,028,019 times
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Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
Well divine child sacrifice aside, it seems I won't get an answer to my question of how the bible says jesus being your saviour is the only way to get to heaven BUT if you didn't know about him and you lead a good life that's just as good too. Like most things in the bible it doesn't make any sense.
I already answered this, apparently you ignored it. If anyone was not given the chance, they cannot be held responsible. Anotherwords Jesus is the only way and He will make sure everyone has a legitimate chance to accept or deny His free gift. On the unlikely chance someone fell thru the cracks and never got that chance before death, then they will not be held responsible for not knowing. This is entirely up to God for only He knows our hearts. What you seem to miss, and I will admit this is dogma, it is believed we visited by angels unaware. I believe there is a verse in the Bible that even states this. We are also promised that Gods law is written on our hearts, which would further prove our guilt if we deny His morallity. Do I need to go on or do you get the idea that with God all things are possible?
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,028,019 times
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Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
Don't hold your breath. I'm set in my ways and set on spreading the anti-gospel. Have a nice day.
Well Deguire does this statement answer your question as to why I questioned sexual oreintation?
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,557 posts, read 11,892,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilvan View Post
The resurrected humans whose names are not in the Book of Life and those who have chosen to die in the White Throne Judgment, will die a final death in the Lake of Fire. Then the rest of mankind will be given eternal life because death and hell (meaning the grave) is no more... these are cast into the Lake of Fire. (Rev.20:14).
You seem to have it all worked out. At what point is creation itself set free (as Rom 8 states) and He reconciles all things to Himself (Col 1)?

I do believe in punishment as used for correction, but I won't believe God's desires are thwarted by man, or the Blood falling short of its intended target(s).
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Canada
589 posts, read 1,348,791 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Morman or JW? Well if you are right, I get a second chance but if I am right you are damned and WILL go to hell for all eternity. You better be absolutely positive. I don't have to be because it's a win win situation for me.
Read my post again... "Only the savages, aborted babies, children who died very young, retarded, et.al... will be given a chance to make their decision in the Great White Throne Judgment.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:35 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,716,016 times
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Originally Posted by wilvan View Post
Read my post again... "Only the savages, aborted babies, children who died very young, retarded, et.al... will be given a chance to make their decision in the Great White Throne Judgment.
Got it! "Savages". I have heard only Mormons use that reference and what verse is that may I ask?
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