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ILNC, just because you state it does not make it so.
You guys never answer the question or problems proposed to you yet you you just do a bunch of hand waving and then state the opposite. Sorry but that is not taking the Sciptures seriously nor being ready to give a reason as to why you believe something rather just what you believe.
I realize that you are a futurist and I am a preterist, but even so I would lean toward a post tribulation or mid rather than pre-trib if I were a futurist... simply because of Rev. 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
How are the ones judging brought back to life after being beheaded and not taking the mark if they never went through the tribulation and died? There is really no mention of live people being resurrected as that would mean redefining resurrection but in any case.... it is clear by just this verse alone that those who reign with Christ die during the tribulation and refused the mark.
What I am stating is what the Bible teaches. Scripture has already been presented to back up our belief of Pre Tribulation Rapture.
Yes it most certainly has been presented, time and time again ILNC, by you, by me, by many others. Enough already. Go back and read all of the Rapture threads Shiloh. This thread is not a debate thread.
12-04-2009, 03:29 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA
What I am stating is what the Bible teaches. Scripture has already been presented to back up our belief of Pre Tribulation Rapture.
See you just proved my point
I could say the same thing: What I am stating is what the Bible teaches. Scripture has already been presented to back up our belief of Post Tribulation Rapture.
See all I did was change three letters - 'ost'.
WOW - I did not know Exegesis was so simple.
Pre-trib is a bunch inference from Scriptures that are unclear.
Why don't you pick one verse and the immediate context around those verses and present your case?
You won't have one direct reference to a PRE-TRIB Rapture. You will just invent special categories like TWO 'comings' and TWO 'resurrections' for believers in Christ.
I realize that you are a futurist and I am a preterist, but even so I would lean toward a post tribulation or mid rather than pre-trib if I were a futurist... simply because of Rev. 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
How are the ones judging brought back to life after being beheaded and not taking the mark if they never went through the tribulation and died? There is really no mention of live people being resurrected as that would mean redefining resurrection but in any case.... it is clear by just this verse alone that those who reign with Christ die during the tribulation and refused the mark.
Huh???? The ones judging are not the ones who went through the tribulation, my dear. Read it again. They have been given the "authority to judge"....it does not say who "they" are. Could be anyone from Adam to Billy Graham. Alright, enough confusion please.
12-04-2009, 03:32 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
Yes it most certainly has been presented, time and time again ILNC, by you, by me, by many others. Enough already. Go back and read all of the Rapture threads Shiloh. This thread is not a debate thread.
Ilene, I was PRE-TRIB for 15 years until I learned to actually study the issue and not overlay someone elses framework upon the Scriptures - BE A BEREAN.
Ilene, I was PRE-TRIB for 15 years until I learned to actually study the issue and not overlay someone elses framework upon the Scriptures - BE A BEREAN.
And you had it right the first time.
12-04-2009, 03:38 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
And you had it right the first time.
No it just sounded right until you actually get around to doing what God told you to do - read and pray about what is being said without someone elses preconcieved ideas.
Huh???? The ones judging are not the ones who went through the tribulation, my dear. Read it again. They have been given the "authority to judge"....it does not say who "they" are. Could be anyone from Adam to Billy Graham. Alright, enough confusion please.
Seriously?
Here is Rev 20:4-6 perhaps that will help you to see the TRUTH:
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
See in verse 6 how it is the ones who take part in the first resurrection.. those that had not worshiped the beast and those that were not beheaded.. they are the ones who are reigning with Christ for a thousand years... So if you think that the raptured Christians are the ones seated on the thrones to judge.. well then you have to understand that those thrones were given to the disciples:
Matt 19:28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
No it just sounded right until you actually get around to doing what God told you to do - read and pray about what is being said without someone elses preconcieved ideas.
It sounded right because it IS right. I don't need to read and pray about it...you do. You've been deceived. But that is happening all over the place because we're living in the last days. Since you're so sure you'll be going through the tribulation maybe you can hook up with katjj and you can battle them bugs together!!
It sounded right because it IS right. I don't need to read and pray about it...you do. You've been deceived. But that is happening all over the place because we're living in the last days. Since you're so sure you'll be going through the tribulation maybe you can hook up with katjj and you can battle them bugs together!!
Well get ready for the battle because there is no way you can wiggle your way out of the fact that if the tribulation does happen... you will have to go through it. My previous post affirms it.. You are the one who has been deceived by your carnality in wanting to be rescued from having to fight for what you believe in..... are you prepared for battle Ilene?
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The ones judging are not the ones who went through the tribulation, my dear. Read it again. They have been given the "authority to judge"....it does not say who "they" are. Could be anyone from Adam to Billy Graham. Alright, enough confusion please.
