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We all know that God desires for all of mankind to be saved but He also knows that many will turn from Him. If all mankind were saved and none were lost, what need would there be for a final judgment? Why then would the book of Revelation have to have been written?
The final judgment condemns men and they will realize that they are indeed lost and deserving of death. Men must be broken in order to realize that they are in need of a Savior. Many will experience death, but death itself is to be made of no effect and the creation is to be delivered from the bondage to corruption as presented in Romans. Many will experience death and destruction from the judgments of God but it is not the final state if all every knee will bow in worship and every tongue is to confess Him joyfully. One thing to note is that Death and Hades translated as hell are to be thrown into the lake of fire which is described as the second death. I believe that the lake of fire is for a higher purpose. God not only desires, but He will have all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. How is it that sin, ignorance, and darkness will be able to defeat the intention of God? How is it that the work of satan will last for all of eternity? Is darkness greater than light? Will the effect of Adam's sin be greater than the sacrifice of the Son of God?
Quote:
, "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
The number of schools in the early church that taught ultimate reconciliation is an embarrassment to many modern church historians. Therefore, they often do whatever they can to hide these facts. I mention again that these Christian Universalists who were clearly the majority of the early Church, believed that all mankind through Christ would be restored. They believed and taught and many laid down their lives for the belief that Jesus Christ was truly the Savior of the whole world
Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge/G. Amirault
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 11-29-2007 at 03:07 PM..
I believe once saved ALWAYS saved. 1 John 5:13 "I write this to you who believe in the Son of God, so that yo may know you have eternal life". Eternal life is based on feelings but facts. You can know that you have eternal life if you believe God's truth. I also think if our salvation is not secure how could Jesus about those to whom He gives eternal life "and they shall never perish" John 10:28. If we could be saved one day and lost the next day, Jesus would take us to Heaven the minute we became saved. Can joy and insecurity really coexist? How realistic is it to expect us to rejoice over a relationship that is only as secure as our behavior is consistent?
He was Son of Man by virtue of human birth; He was the Son of Man by virtue of His human body and the limitations contained therein; He was the Son of Man by virtue of His human or earthly name that was given to Him and finally by virtue of the fact that He released the glory He held so that He could live as a man. Does that help explain some things?
I still don't see why Jesus would call himself Son of Man, since all men are the sons of man and all the daughters are daughters of man.
And if God created Adam and Eve, we the offspring of Adam & Eve are God's grandchildren, thus we also are the children of God. So it makes no sense for Jesus to call himself Son of Man or Son Of God, because we all are.
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED? What saith the Scriptures?
1st corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." Paul, in the context of speaking to Christians, is saying to remain faithful - be watchful - be steadfast - or you will lose your reward. Recall the parable of the talents as told by Christ. Peace.
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED? What saith the Scriptures?
1st corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." Paul, in the context of speaking to Christians, is saying to remain faithful - be watchful - be steadfast - or you will lose your reward. Recall the parable of the talents as told by Christ. Peace.
1 Corinthians 10:12-13 " If you think you are standing strong, be careful, for you too may fall into the same sin. But remember that the temptations that come into your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will keep the temptation from becoming so strong that you can't stand up against it. When you are tempted, He will show you a way out so that you will not give into it".
Just because we are saved does not mean will never sin or be tempted but we have a mighty God who gives us His strength to resist these temptations.
Hey, I have heard agruments on both sides of the "once saved always saved" issue. I have mixed feeling. Once I got saved I was glad about it, and I don't plan on living another way. So in my case "once saved always saved." Does that mean I am perfect? Hardly... i'm a work in progress. I'm growing in perfection-until I hit the mark I am pressing toward the mark...and that is what I think is meant by walking out one's salvation. I thank GOD for HIS mercy and forgiveness. I fall short, but HIS grace is totally sufficient... However, that does not mean if I purposely turn back from following Jesus the Christ that I will continue to be saved. There is no salvation is sin; nor, a secure way to practice it. Therefore, I don't believe "once saved always saved. Christians must abide in Jesus Christ and let HIS WORD abide in them. We cannot be saved except we do indeed ABIDE...IN HIM. I cannot claim salvation one day and then live like the devil the rest of my life because once I got saved so I always will be saved. It just doesn't work that way. Read the Holy Bible!!!
Well like I said only God can truly know our hearts. It is in our church doctrine that the shedding of innocent blood is an unforgiveable sin. Now we have also been told that it is absolutely inappropriate to judge whether someone is damned or not because of this. I'm sure there are many exceptions and I'll say again God is the ONLY judge and the ONLY one that truly knows whats in our hearts.
maybe your church should learn what saul did befor he came paul.
Saul killed countless of christians in cold blood but Jesus still forgave him.
Mine question is The bible says in the last days people will fall from the faith but how can you fall if you truly never had it?
Yeah, this is always the same old excuse. I see Christians who go on and on about how loving God is but give them the uni argument and they instantly switch over to "Yeah, but" and then God is also wrathful, hateful, ect...
Why is it that God is not to take responsiblity for His imperfect creation?
God's ways are not ours, yadda yadda...yet I was made in His image, and I would never concieve of doing to my children what His followers claim about Him.
It's like scrambling to find excuses for an inexcusable tirant who wants everyone to love Him despite His cruelties. Just sad.
And that's not the God of all creation that I serve.
so you deny God has a wrath against The wicked?
Why is it that God is not to take responsiblity for His imperfect creation?
I do not believe God made us like little puppets on strings that our job to take responsibly for our own actions
Absolutely not. But I don't believe that His wrath has no end--rather, that His mercy and loving-kindess has no end...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryasIS
Why is it that God is not to take responsiblity for His imperfect creation?
I do not believe God made us like little puppets on strings that our job to take responsibly for our own actions
Yes, we are all certainly responsible for our actions. But the ULTIMATE responsibility for creation lies with the Creator, logically.
If God is truly omniscient and omnipotent, then no more making excuses for Him. Either He knew the end from the beginning, or He didn't. Either He's all powerful, or He is not. If He is all-knowing and powerful, and He is, then a puny illusion like human "free" will will not thwart Almighty God.
ShanaBrown: God is also a God of wrath, judgment, and justice. Our ways are not God's ways and our thoughts are not His thoughts. Would you agree that God many times came in judgment in the OT against those who professed to love Him and honor Him? We are not an all-knowing, all-powerful, completely holy and righteous being that we can sit in judgment of God's decisions.
The Scriptures make it clear that some will be saved and some will perish. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not PERISH but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).
"And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in EVERLASTING CHAINS under DARKNESS for the judgment of the great day, as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as AN EXAMPLE, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE" (Jude 7).
"Then He will also say to those on His left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food . . . . Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these will go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:41ff).
"So it was that the beggar [Lazarus] died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in TORMENTS in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. . . Then he cried and said, ". . . send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME" (Luke 16:22ff).
"Anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:15).
Yes, I believe in eternal hell. And I believe in a holy, righteous, and just God who does what He wants and when He wants. If what He does seems unjust and unloving and unkind to us, it is because WE are not God and WE do not see the whole picture as He does. Again, His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts!
ALL are headed for eternal damnation--it is by God's grace that He saves any from that path of destruction. Read Romans 9 concerning the attempt of mortal man to point a finger at God and cry foul!
"What shall I say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.' So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, 'For this very purpose I have RAISED YOU UP, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy ON WHOM HE WILLS, and WHOM HE WILLS, He hardens. You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?' But indeed, O MAN, WHO ARE YOU to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, 'why have you made me thus?' Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath PREPARED FOR DESTRUCTION, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the VESSELS OF MERCY, which He has PREPARED BEFOREHAND FOR GLORY . . . " (Romans 9:14ff).
We do not see things as God sees them, but we have His word for revelation concering these matters.
Preterist
Ugh. No offense, but I just don't understand how Calvinists can believe what they do and actually still love God. I know that's awful to say, but seriously...a Calvinistic God is a cruel, evil, horrible one. This thought is abhorrant to any Christian who truly believes God has an ounce of love in Him. No twisting, conniving, and "We do not see things as God sees them" or "His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts" can change it!
Homer Simpson best summed up the Calvinistic message:
"God loves you! He's going to KILLLL you!"
Calvinists also go through great lengths to state how we have no choice about being in a sin state, we inherit our sin nature from Adam and all (except those whom God has chosen) are helpless to excape it.
Tell me again about a God of love who created billions of people, only to send them briefly through this life before roasting them eternally?
Ugh.
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So it makes no sense for Jesus to call himself Son of Man or Son Of God, because we all are.
I know that's awful to say, but seriously...a Calvinistic God is a cruel, evil, horrible one. This thought is abhorrant to any Christian who truly believes God has an ounce of love in Him. 
No twisting, conniving, and "We do not see things as God sees them" or "His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts" can change it!
