Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We also went with LOGAN and agree with most everything that Gatorbyter said. Our LOGAN will be ready for us just over four months after construction began in late October, about a month before the contracted date. Amazing. I was concerned that the speedy construction might affect the quality. For the most part, so far so good. Not a pretty sight before the drywall goes up. They take a lot of short cuts that I am not familiar with from past experience. After close inspection, I concluded that the shorts cuts taken, mainly to reduce cost and construction time, do not have a detrimental effect on overall quality.
Since we live in MD, we are also building remotely, to a point. The following is a timetable of our visits to SJP:
NOTE: All of our visits, to date, have been extended stays of 4 to 7 days, staying in the CLUB VILLAS condos. We used the additional days to review the area, enjoy the amenities and to get a feel for life in SJP and the area.
Feb. 2012 - visited SJP on their promo package plus a couple more days to ride around on our bikes to get a close up feel for SJ. Walked thru KENT models in SEASIDE. Placed a deposit on a lot.
Oct. 2012 - Went down for a week for the BUILDERS' WEEKEND. The first model that we walked into was the LOGAN Bellamy. It was "love" at first sight. We went around to all of the open models, but did not find another house that hit us like the Bellamy.
Dec. 2012 - Returned to pay off on the lot, join the CLUBS and do further research on LOGAN and the Bellamy.
March 2013 - After many email exchanges with LOGAN's Sales Rep, we went down to sign the initial contract, and took advantage of our Office visit to do an initial review of the selections of fixtures, flooring, colors, roofing etc that we will have to choose from. Took extensive notes and photos to help us to narrow down our selections when we return to make our "final" selections. And to spend a few days enjoying "Paradise." All of our visits to date have been extended stays at the Club Villa Condos.
June/July 2013 - Made our "final" selections at LOGAN's Office. We did not care for the standard appliance package (Range, Dishwasher, Microwave and Disposal), so we went by the supplier, Ferguson's, to see what was available. We made our initial choices, including a Refrigerator, Washer & Dryer, which LOGAN does to include in their package. We left with the understanding that we could make changes before we made our purchase, after the first of the year, and that Ferguson's would MATCH the lowest price that we found at that point in time. After receiving the initial "Quote" later in July, we hit the WEB to research what kind of consumer reviews our choices received. We were not impressed, so we continued our research and came up with a revised list of choices that met our "wants" and got good reviews. Sent the list to Ferguson's and received a new quote back.
By the way, we signed and paid for our appliances last week. Before we did, we went on the Web to check the current prices at HOME DEPOT, LOWE's and BEST BUY, and found that most of our choices were priced lower in at least one of the three stores. We passed our findings to Ferguson's and, without asking us to provide verification, they matched the lower prices..
CONSTRUCTION PERIOD Visits:
Oct. 20, 2013 - had our FIRST, onsite visit with the Project Super. We walked the Lot. He explained things. I asked things. After much back and forth, we ended up on the same page. For example, during our previous visits, I measured and marked off the guesstimated property lines. There were no markers to work from, but I knew that the Utility Boxes, flanking our lot, marked the approx. location of the front corners. No markers in the back and, complicating things was the fact that our lot is slightly pie shaped, widening towards the rear. I knew that the rear property lines for our string of nine lots was a straight line along the entire stretch. In walking that line, I was found a marker a few lots down, in both directions. Using my 100 ft tape, I marked the approx. location of the rear corners. When the official survey was done, I was just a foot off. After hearing that, my wife had to replace my hats with a larger size.
Next, I marked off the house footprint where I wanted it to sit, placing one side parallel to the property line, which placed the front of the house on a slight angle to the street. Just before our onsite visit, I received the Lot survey, which placed the house centered on the lot, with the front being perpendicular to the street. I brought this to the attention of the Proj. Super. who tried to discourage me from changing the location. I stuck to my guns, explaining my reasons, and he finally agreed to try to get my positioning thru the POA Review Board. It did. WORD of WARNING: BUT - the first POA Review memo contained a few requested and a few recommended changes. Most were acceptable to me, but one was totally ludicrous. They wanted the house located a further 50 feet (100 ft total) from the street. If this request was carried out, we would end up with a VERY small back yard.
I got out my scale and aerial photos and found that every house along both side of our street were 50 feet from the street. I respectfully requested that they explain the reasoning/justication for singling us out. They came back, rescinding that request. MESSAGE: don't accept the Review Board decisions as being "carved into stone."
Within two days, the lot was clear and the invironmental barrier was installed. Two weeks later the foundation was in and the framing started.
DEC. 6, 2013 - PRE-DRYWALL ORIENTATION
On arriving, we found the house closed in, before siding installation. Also, the plumbing, electrical and heating/cooling systems were installed. Drywall would be next.
Again, we went around with the Proj. Super. He explained and we asked. We paid particular attention to the installed items, changes and customization that we had requested, to make sure they were done and were what we requested. WORD OF WARNING: We found that the Front Door Package was not what we had chosen. Some of the elec/phone/cable TV outlets had not been relocated as requested. First, everything was corrected to our satisfaction. RECOMMENDATION: Have your plans, contract, OPTIONS sheet and CHANGE ORDER sheets with you. It turned out that LOGAN had not passed on some of the later changes that we had made to the Proj. Super. Just last week, we discovered that the Proj. Super was not aware of our appliance UPGRADES. Having the papers with us cut off the Proj. Super's objections.
JAN. 21st, 2013 - PRE PRE-OCCUPY ORIENTATION
This will be another opportunity to walk around the house and property with the Proj. Super., two to three weeks before completion, to make sure everything meets with our satisfaction. I'll let you know how that goes.
COMMENTS about LOGAN:
We could not have asked for nicer people to deal with. But, you have to keep in mind that they are in the business.
Case in point. They wanted $4,500 to install 30 feet of railing on the Front Porch. When I asked if this was a mistake, since were $7,000 for 175 feet of aluminum fencing. No, that was the price. We removed it and will get a local contractor to do it.
Another case in point: LOGAN shows you, in their display center, what you perceive are the available options. No mention was made that there are other choices available, and they do not provide a list of options and prices to work with. KENT Homes does. So, what's the bid deal, you ask. Well, how can you consider choosing something that you are unaware of or think to ask about. Keep in mind, if you make a change or add something after your sign off on the final OPTIONS LIST, you are hit with a $300 fee per Change/Addition.
A couple examples: We learned a lot from neighbors, a few lots down, who had a LOGAN Home built last year. After that signed off on the OPTIONS LIST, the Mrs. thought it would help her if she had roll out trays in the Kitchen Cabinets. She contacted LOGAN and was told - why yes, they are available, but there will be a $300 Change Fee. NOTE: Roll out Trays were not shown or mentioned to be available during the SELECTIONS session at LOGAN's Display Center.
Fortunately for us, the Mrs. told my wife about them before we had signed our OPTIONS Sheet. So we told LOGAN that we might like to add them. What was the cost? $700 per tray, $1400 per cabinet 4 trays; $4,200 three, 2 door, undercounter drawers. Get out of Town!
I don't know if she just thought of it, or knew before hand, but our LOGAN Selections Rep said that she believed that cost of $700 per tray, was irregardless of size.. If the center stile was removed. instead of paying for FOUR trays per cabinet, we would be paying for TWO trays per cabinet, cutting the cost in half. Now we're getting somewhere. And that's what we did.
Final Example: This one cost us. Our home package included a screen porch. We were talking with an across the street neighbor, after we signed our OPTIONS SHEET, and she told us how useless she found her Screen Porch to be because of the heavy Spring PINE POLLEN, which is a problem from March to June. That's the optimum period to enjoy a screen porch. She then mentioned that they has an EZE-BREEZE added. We asked other residents about the pollen problem and they all concurred. Sometime, during that visit (Oct. 13), we walked into a LOGAN model in the Woodlands section, we discovered that it had a LOGAN installed EZE-BREEZE porch. I asked LOGAN why we were not told about the availability of this porch. We didn't ask. They could add it for $4,500 plus the $300 Change Fee. After getting quotes from local contractors, we went with LOGAN and can now enjoy our screen porch all year long.
So, WORD TO THE WISE: Spend time and thought to draw up a WISH LIST before meeting at LOGANS to make your selections, upgrades and additions. If they don't show or mention an item on your list - ASK.
It looks like I got carried away, sharing our experiences. Hope it helps.
My girlfriend made the same comment about a hanging swing. Smart move to have the ceiling fans. My porch will face east, so it should be usable most of the day.
In what part of SJP are you building? I will be in Woodlands Park.
This is an interesting discussion. I built my home with Logan and the process took 6 months. I basically knew what I wanted to build because my wife and I walked through 25+ homes. I was very active in monitoring the construction, as I included many construction upgrades that visitors walking through my home would never see. In fact, I had some concerns and bumped into D. Logan (owner) at a home show. He took my number and the following Monday his staff set up a conference call with me. We went through a detailed discussion of the construction process and materials and D gave me over an hour of his time answering questions and making suggestions. As an example, I was going to include an oversize 2 car garage. D recommended a third car garage with minimal increase in price. Logan was upfront that the fridge, washer and dryer was not included. It was not a concern, as I wanted Samsung models and got them competitively priced at Home Depot & Lowes. Some of the other upgrades we included were: high end upgraded windows, 3rd car garage, Carolina Room, Upgraded HVAC, Custom Patio, Complete Brick Exterior (our home is two stories), generator hook up, upgraded flooring and tile in bathrooms. Some of the things we wish we did include are more high hats in the family room, third zone HVAC for the master bedroom, and an upgraded front door. Most of those things are minor. The only request that Logan would not do is to add a balcony off a second floor bedroom. This would have been a major change to the plans and the flow of the house. I would recommend Logan to my friend and have done so already.
Ponypride
Pony,
I appreciate your comments, it gives me yet another positive confirmation regrading Logan Homes.
I was wondering if you could share with us some of your reasoning for a few of your upgrades.
1. High end upgraded Windows - I noticed in some of the model homes (don't recall the builder) the newly installed windows had a sticker showing the zone in the country where they were to be installed. And that zone was pretty narrowly defined to the southern US. Recently I had a sliding door installed in my house here in Northern Virginia and the sticker implied that the door would be suitable anywhere in the US. Were your upgrades to the windows for energy efficiency or for things like going from single to double hung? And do you recall the difference in cost?
2. HVAC - Were your upgrades for energy efficiency or for a larger unit or two vs one zone?
3. Generator Hook up - I realize there was discussion sometime ago regarding the need for back-up power, but you obviously wanted the option. What was the cost for the hook-up? And did you also install a propane generator?
Thanks for sharing your experiences! We also purchased a lot in SJP (Members Section)in 2011 and plan to build in approx. 24 months. Initially looked at Kent Homes then met with a couple of individual builders and walked through a few of their homes. After having done your research, how would you compare the interior finishes of the homes from builder to builder? Did you find substantial differences in the quality of construction or the trim and finish materials? I would imagine that the "bones" of the structures (foundation, framing, subfloor, plumbing, electrical, etc.) would be fairly standard with the possible exception of beefing up exterior walls to 2x6 (we need the extra insulation here in CNY....-20 degree wind chill today!) so probably not a big difference in the "quality" of these areas. BTW Active, I found the sf price for your home intriguing as we were given numbers in the range of $120 to $135 by a couple of individual builders. Would it be accurate to say the the difference may be related to economies of scale? (or maybe I looked like like I just fell off the haywagon!) Pony, with your upgrades, did you find the sf cost to be similar to Active's? Happy SJP home-owning!
You have the double lot in Regency Lakes, right? My wife and I drove down to see that part of the community last time down. Below are the answers to your questions.
1) Windows: Most of the big box builders (Kent, Logan) use vinyl windows. I went with high end Andersen do to the superior construction and insulation properties. They will hold up much better over the long haul. My research of vinyl windows did not provide positive results. This has proved to be a good choice as my AC bills in the summer are very low.
2) HVAC: I added a second compressor for the upstairs and increased the sear value from 13, which is standard builders grade to 16. Many big box builders use one large compressor with a dual panel system that allows you to have two zones. I wanted to improve efficiency by having a separate compressor for each zone. The size is the same (5 tons) but the efficiency is improved. That has made a huge difference in electric bills.
3) Generator Hook-up: As I researched the area, I felt that a complete back-up system was overkill (just my opinion). I have a 5,750 BTU gas powered generator in my garage. I had a hook-up on the outside of the home that allows me to plug in the generator with a grounded extension cord and it will run the circuits in my home. Not as seamless as a complete propane back-up system, but for the minimal time it may be put into use, I think it is sufficient. The cost of the hook-up was $375.00.
I could probably have a long conversation with you regarding builders. I can only offer in this space a few observations. If you want more detail, please feel free to PM me and we can chat.
First let me say that both Kent and Logan are very good big box builders. I originally looked at Kent during the initial phase of my search for a builder. My salesperson, Suzanne, ended up moving (she was awesome!) so when I got closer to building I checked out Logan and the cost and the one on one attention Logan provided me sealed the deal.
I have no complaints about "fit and finish" of big box vs. custom builders, but there are definitely differences. A few examples: Moldings may be more elaborate with custom builders, trim with big box is finger jointed in many cases (where you can see joints) where custom builders use single piece clear pine, big box does not provide flooring under cabinets, vanities, etc, whereas many custom builders do provide coverage over the entire floor. These are just a few differences. Most building for the foundations and bones of the house are similar, but there are differences:
1) Some builders use pex for plumbing and others use PVC. No one uses copper anymore - too expensive. Pex, in my opinion is best.
2) Foundation - On slab foundations, some builders use cement with a fiber additive to give it strength (fairly recent technique), and do not use rebarb. I like the traditional approach of both cement with rebarb. The big decision we had to make is a slab foundation vs. a crawlspace. We decided on a slab. That is strictly personal preference.
3) "Green" builders use finger jointed studs on vertical "non load bearing walls," while others do not. The primary benefit of finger jointed studs (aside from the environmental benefits) is that since the best part of the wood is used and finger jointed together, the studs will not be warped and the sheetrock will sit true and not be waivey or show imperfections. The bad points is that the studs should not get wet (i.e. in the lumber yard) as moisture can degrade the glue, and you should not drill into the joint as you can crack the stud.
4) Sub-flooring: Make sure your builder uses Advantech. It is a huge benefit over t&g particle board flooring. It is a synthetic material that is superior. I requested that my builder use it. The reason it is good is that sub-flooring should not get wet as this may cause it to deterioate (especially particle board). Since while under construction, the house may be open to the elements, the sub-flooring may likely be exposed.
5) Wall Structure: The sill plates are 2x6 but there is no need to go 2x6 on the wall studs. I kept 2x4 every 16 inches on center. One option is to go with exterior plywood on the exterior instead of OSB to provide additional strength. Also, many big box builders have floor joists 20 inches on center. I added extra floor joints and made them 16 on center. I also made my roof sheathing 3/4 inch exterior plywood instead of 1/2 inch CDX for improved strength.
I am not sure what my cost per sq. ft. was, but Active seem to be in the ballpark. In my pricing of custom builders, the cost difference per sq. ft. was 30%-40% higher.
I have a single lot in Woodlands Park. I believe it was Gatorbyter who had the double lot.
I really appreciate your answers to both my and LakeEffect's questions, it will help me buy a better designed and constructed home!
Thanks,
Paul
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
!
