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Status:
"48 years in MD, 18 in NC"
(set 7 days ago)
Location: Greenville, NC
2,309 posts, read 6,100,090 times
Reputation: 1430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91
I do recall that now that you said it...I think it would be worth the money for a project that has been the number 1 priority since the 264 bypass was built in the mid 90's.
If they can move up the Southwest Bypass, Evans widening and have the 10th St connector doen in the next 5 years, it would be a massive transportation transformation in Greenville.
What most people fail to realize is how little of the existing bypass will be retained. The northern bypass as it exists now, will be essentially abandoned. The only section that will be retained is the northwest section from US264 to about 1.5 miles past Old River Road or about a 4 mile section. The new northern bypass will swing out and around Simpson. From there there will be a new Southeast loop that will complete the Greenville Beltline.
What most people fail to realize is how little of the existing bypass will be retained. The northern bypass as it exists now, will be essentially abandoned. The only section that will be retained is the northwest section from US264 to about 1.5 miles past Old River Road or about a 4 mile section. The new northern bypass will swing out and around Simpson. From there there will be a new Southeast loop that will complete the Greenville Beltline.
I had no idea they were doing the bypass all the way out around Simpson. Guess I never paid attention to it - that route was prepared before we moved to Greenville in 2005 (we moved away in 2009)
What most people fail to realize is how little of the existing bypass will be retained. The northern bypass as it exists now, will be essentially abandoned. The only section that will be retained is the northwest section from US264 to about 1.5 miles past Old River Road or about a 4 mile section. The new northern bypass will swing out and around Simpson. From there there will be a new Southeast loop that will complete the Greenville Beltline.
No, no, no; no beltway! Are we seriously going to believe that beltways are the thing of the future? Beltways don't give smart growth, highways in general don't, I had no clue that the South West bypass or whatever it's called is supposed to be leg for a beltway, my approval for the route has plummeted even further now..
The beltway won't help traffic, it will only push traffic onto the highway.
No, no, no; no beltway! Are we seriously going to believe that beltways are the thing of the future? Beltways don't give smart growth, highways in general don't, I had no clue that the South West bypass or whatever it's called is supposed to be leg for a beltway, my approval for the route has plummeted even further now..
The beltway won't help traffic, it will only push traffic onto the highway.
Normally I would agree with you, but there are a few things to consider here....
1) The Medical District in Greenville is just that a "District"...a beltway will make it much more accessible to the entire county/region because it drops off near it. Ditto with the existing Industrial District.
2) Greenville is establishing itself as the major economic engine of Eastern NC, a region that has long been depressed. The bigger Greenville grows, the better, IMO. We all know the coast is going to continue to develop, but Greenville provides opportunities for those that don't live along the coast.
3) ECU is in the core of this and will help (along with downtown redevelopment) keep too much sprawl from happening. Why? Because the further you are away, the less desirable. This will keep Greenville Blvd and downtown viable even though they are not along the Beltline.
4) The northeast and southeast bypasses won't happen for 20 plus more years...it will encompass all 3 Greenville High Schools, and 3 towns. It will function more like an Interstate system for the region (from places like Washington, Kinston, Williamston, New Bern, etc...) than just a urban loop. Greenville is the educational, entertainment, medical, and economic center of the region...many of the other communities are increasingly dependent on Greenville. Those folks have to be able to get in, get around, and get out without jamming up too much local traffic.
Normally I would agree with you, but there are a few things to consider here....
1) The Medical District in Greenville is just that a "District"...a beltway will make it much more accessible to the entire county/region because it drops off near it. Ditto with the existing Industrial District.
2) Greenville is establishing itself as the major economic engine of Eastern NC, a region that has long been depressed. The bigger Greenville grows, the better, IMO. We all know the coast is going to continue to develop, but Greenville provides opportunities for those that don't live along the coast.
3) ECU is in the core of this and will help (along with downtown redevelopment) keep too much sprawl from happening. Why? Because the further you are away, the less desirable. This will keep Greenville Blvd and downtown viable even though they are not along the Beltline.
4) The northeast and southeast bypasses won't happen for 20 plus more years...it will encompass all 3 Greenville High Schools, and 3 towns. It will function more like an Interstate system for the region (from places like Washington, Kinston, Williamston, New Bern, etc...) than just a urban loop. Greenville is the educational, entertainment, medical, and economic center of the region...many of the other communities are increasingly dependent on Greenville. Those folks have to be able to get in, get around, and get out without jamming up too much local traffic.
I wanted to Rep you, but it says I need to spread some around; but that was an excellent post, and I agree with your logic in a present sense, but in the future highways will be more obsolete than they are now and this is why I believe we should find other places to invest. Yes, a beltway will pull people off of the local streets and put them on a limited-access highway, but I think that would only be a way to... Seal a bullet wound as opposed to pulling the bullet out and curing the wound if understand what I'm saying. We need to get to the root of the problem as opposed to pushing it onto a highway. To increase our business or more specifically industrial visibility we could build an inland port that ships all merchandise to Wilmington and takes trucks off the roads, we could designate 264 as an interstate as Mayor Allen and many others would like to do, we could focus more on getting people on mass transit, and even aim to fix our existing traffic system; there is a bunch we could do to Greenville to make things better as opposed to building a beltway that sprawl will inevitably surround.
Take a look at any city with a beltway, the sprawl only gets worse when it's in place because people or developers believe that a highway/beltway equals convenience therefore a bunch of neighborhoods bounce up around them which only results in the need for either more lanes or an entirely different beltway or outer loop.
But we agree to disagree and I understand and respect what you're saying.
Residents of Greenville, particularly those who frequent downtown, will be getting more than just a $4 million concrete block to park their cars on at the corner of Fourth and Cotanche streets, according to Uptown Greenville and project representatives.
Robert Griffin, president of RGG Architecture in Greenville, said the goal is to create a safe, transparent, light, cohesive structure that reflects part of Greenville's history while blending in with its surroundings.
At a public input meeting to review details of the deck's design, Griffin and City Engineer Scott Godefroy gave brief presentations on the features and potential aesthetics of the deck.
Safety features like lighting and cameras are important to the deck's design, Griffin and Godefroy said, as City Council made safety a top priority. Safety also played into other features such as transparency of the deck and the need to create an "open feel" along with lighter colors inside the deck to help users feel safe.
The architectural design of the deck is meant to reflect the Flanagan Buggy Works building design as well as other historic elements of downtown Greenville.
Griffin said he is proud of the story the deck tells and is glad to see historic parts of Greenville reflected in the structure.
Uptown Greenville Director Bianca Shoneman said her organization will be working with deck designers and the city on opportunities for public art and other requested features.
The deck likely will feature a partial brick facade, along with decorative metal screens and a clock tower, all with the goal of creating a cohesive but open appearance.
Griffin said he thinks this design draws Greenville and the public in, not only for input on the deck itself, but in all aspects of the appearance and functionality of the deck.
In May, the council selected Barnhill Contracting Co. to serve as the construction manager for the deck. In August, the council selected Walker Parking Consultants as the lead designer.
After selecting design and construction management firms, city staff developed plans for a multi-level deck with 250 spaces. According to designers, the deck likely will be three stories tall - no taller than most surrounding buildings.
Input from residents, business owners and city staff helped project designers plan "lively pedestrian connections" from Fifth, Evans, Cotanche and Fourth streets, all of which will turn "dead-end and unsightly alleys into attractive and user-friendly connections," planners said. Bike racks are included in the design.
Development of those connections will come in later phases of the deck, Griffin said, as the firms work to keep the deck and immediate surrounding areas in budget.
The council requested exploration of the use of solar panels on the top level of the deck. Staff noted that the planned deck's top-level surface area would be too small, and similar projects usually have significant government subsidies to the solar energy equipment provider or operator, which the city does not have for the deck.
The addition of solar panels would cost about $375,000 - and not generate a significant amount of energy - in addition to the $4,026,240 price tag for the deck. Staff said solar opportunities could be explored later, including the possibility of a private partnership to accomplish the project and Griffin noted that nothing in the design plans for the deck would prevent future inclusion of solar panels, should opportunities arise.
Bidding of pre-cast elements of the deck will take place this month. Bidding for other construction components will take place in February. Construction is scheduled to begin in March and the deck will open in November of 2014.
I wanted to Rep you, but it says I need to spread some around; but that was an excellent post, and I agree with your logic in a present sense, but in the future highways will be more obsolete than they are now and this is why I believe we should find other places to invest. Yes, a beltway will pull people off of the local streets and put them on a limited-access highway, but I think that would only be a way to... Seal a bullet wound as opposed to pulling the bullet out and curing the wound if understand what I'm saying. We need to get to the root of the problem as opposed to pushing it onto a highway. To increase our business or more specifically industrial visibility we could build an inland port that ships all merchandise to Wilmington and takes trucks off the roads, we could designate 264 as an interstate as Mayor Allen and many others would like to do, we could focus more on getting people on mass transit, and even aim to fix our existing traffic system; there is a bunch we could do to Greenville to make things better as opposed to building a beltway that sprawl will inevitably surround.
Take a look at any city with a beltway, the sprawl only gets worse when it's in place because people or developers believe that a highway/beltway equals convenience therefore a bunch of neighborhoods bounce up around them which only results in the need for either more lanes or an entirely different beltway or outer loop.
But we agree to disagree and I understand and respect what you're saying.
I still think a limited-access freeway that touches the southern end of Winterville, cutting up to the westside of Simpson would be the best path. There currently isn't too much development there, and a 10ish mile road that is closer to current development would be a lot better than something that wraps around Ayden.
Ayden doesn't need to be included inside of this beltway. They are too far south. Any development down there will move northward, towards my proposed road. And they still will have the bypass to use, even though I think it is pretty useless after Winterville.
I still think a limited-access freeway that touches the southern end of Winterville, cutting up to the westside of Simpson would be the best path. There currently isn't too much development there, and a 10ish mile road that is closer to current development would be a lot better than something that wraps around Ayden.
Ayden doesn't need to be included inside of this beltway. They are too far south. Any development down there will move northward, towards my proposed road. And they still will have the bypass to use, even though I think it is pretty useless after Winterville.
I would approve of that route (Winterville to Simpson) much more than dipping all the way down to Ayden and coming all the way back up, it seems like it only encourages more sprawl all the way to Ayden. I've never understood why 264 even goes to the North Side in the way it does, it seems like the South West Bypass should've been built first as opposed to the Northern Side which isn't used that much. I can approve of a highway from Winterville to the Medical District just because many people from Winterville work at Vidant (By the way, Vidant isn't as bad as I originally thought and I've grown to use it over Pitt Memorial). But ultimately if this route is constructed, Greenville needs to automatically opt-in for more smart growth policies, if I lived in Greenville, I would def. run for city council just to push for these growth policies.
I've been researching modern technologies and urban redevelopment, and I wouldn't mind Uptown Greenville looking more like this city in the UK named Salford, or more specifically a part of Salford's quarry named MediaCityUK. I want to emphasize the need for more business within Uptown Greenville and incentivize companies to move there, as well as updating the area into more of a technologically advanced area. I'm not sure how much research is done at ECU outside of Medical Research, but it would be nice if ECU would start on various projects like creating Solar Roads and placing them in Uptown Streets, or working on creating Quantum Computing to be one of the birth-sites, or even creating a 3-D manufacturing hub that could be the stepping stones towards a second industrial revolution.
I mean Uptown is small, don't get me wrong, but I think the size should be further say why we shouldn't take just anything thats developed there. I still don't like how the development with a Starbucks in it is placed, it looks far too suburban for the entrance of a city-center, so I consider that one of the examples of accepting just anything. I want the city to put emphasizes on height, especially as you get closer to the river because the lack of available river-front properties. I want some of the buildings ECU continues to build at its Vidant Medical Campus to be built in the West End instead, and I would like more "clean" green space in downtown; for example, tearing down that parking lot infront of Cubbies and replacing it with a nice green space would do wonders for the area especially if planned correctly and if its well-maintained. Imagine on this green space that I'm proposing, bands playing music, or an ice-skating rink at certain times of the year, or even ECU students coming from the Vidant West End campus to study, it would bring patrons to local businesses and pend up demand for new units near it.
Personally, if the city wants to do anything with the West End/Tobacco District, I wouldn't mind being included in the process of at least giving ideas to make it better. I've always said, if I were a billionaire, I would invest millions into the West End to bring it life because I've always thought it had more potential than Uptown has, but I don't want the city to give up on Uptown but instead divide the districts into more of a Yuppie and Adult filled district (Tobacco District) and a Student filled district (Uptown).
An old article on what many of us have essentially been saying for years, cities or more specifically Greenville doesn't need to worry about more big-box stores and restaurants but instead urban redevelopment and mixed-use development.
I may just have to move back down to Greenville and run for city-council myself. Just playing, but when I come down this summer most likely, I would like to work hand in hand with members of the Greenville City Council just on introducing various ideas on how we could all evolve the economy without necessarily spending too much cash.
I have to agree with BMORE. Beltways, specifically those that encompass so much undeveloped land is not the answer. The state DOT with the help of Greenville has missed opportunities with the the over-development of Memorial Drive and Greenville Blvd. These were the original bypasses and now slice through the primary commercial corridors. The new development that is stretching further south only undermines the opportunity to reconstruct Memorial Drive or at least preserve it as a low access highway. Despite the costs, the returns would be greater by improving access in developed and redeveloping areas.
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