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I am the proud mom of an 8 year old black lab named Sage who just got diagnosed with adenocarsinoma. My husband and I have been weighing out the options we have been given and are having a hard time making a decision. Sage's symptoms at this point are bloody nasal discharge out the right nostril and some difficulty breathing when he sleeps. Until we make a decision, we have changed his dog food to Purina One and he takes Rimadyl, Doxycycline, fish oil, shark cartilage, and tremadol for pain. We don't really give him the pain medication unless he shows signs of being uncomfortable. One of the options we have been given is 18 treatments of radiation that the vets say will give him 9-12 months after treatment. They are saying his life expectancy is 3-6 months without radiation. I have been reading your posts and found your experiences to be very helpful. At this point we are leaning towards not pursuing the radiation because of the side effects and costs. Our vet just mentioned last week a possibility of chemo (carboplatin and piroxicam), but say there have not been enough studies done to know the pros/cons and life expectancy after treatment. Any encouraging words are needed!!!!
I'm sorry to hear of Sage's diagnosis. We all know how much it sucks to hear this diagnosis in particular. While this forum is quiet right now, you will find that it is a very knowledgeable and understanding place to work through this difficult time. Feel free to ask questions and vent--it seems that someone on this forum has been through everything with this disease!
As for me and my dog, we have been battling nasal adenocarcinoma for 2 years now. My dog has been extremely healthy and active the entire time, minus the two weeks following definitive radiation. We have been lucky with the progression of his tumor, as all are different and seem to progress and respond to treatment differently. Scout's tumor recurred this spring after definitive radiation and we are now treating it palliatively. It is large and has begun to invade one orbit but is unilateral.
I'll tell you what we've done and are doing in case it helps you make a decision. Know, however, that there's no one right way to treat this disease and not treating it is also a very humane decision.
1. Definitive conventional radiation (a 10-day course): Other than the side effects directly following radiation, Scout handled this well. He does now have a cataract in the eye on the treated side. We began seeing symptoms again after 16 months or so.
2. Palliative IMRT (3 treatments): IMRT is a new (for pets) type of radiation that better bends and targets the tumor, rather than normal tissues. It can be hard to find an oncologist that uses IMRT.
3. Conventional Chemotherapy: Carboplatin (3 injections) followed by doxirubicin (2 injections). Although there is little data supporting its use, there is some. It isn't terribly expensive, considering what we've spent on radiation and it seems to be worth a shot. The side effects for dogs are (supposedly) nearly non-existent.
4. Metronomic chemotherapy: Daily piroxicam and cytoxin in capsule forum. This chemo doesn't target the tumor but rather targets the blood vessel formation that feeds the tumor. We will follow up chemo with this and continue it until the end of the road. It is relatively inexpensive ($50/month) but again, is not really backed up with data.
Because our dog is still in such amazing shape, it was important for us to do what could help him while maintaining his high quality of life. He's a very special dog (aren't they all), and we've been happy with our choices. I do think I would have investigated surgery following his first round of radiation and the possibility of radiosurgery instead of definitive radiation if I had known more.
I know deciding what to do can be amazingly difficult. Please feel free to ask any questions you have. I also recommend that you find a veterinary oncologist that you like and trust if you haven't already. Finally, Colorado State University's oncology program has a consultation service where you can talk to an oncologist to get advice if you can't find it elsewhere. You can find the information on their website.
my dog tillie has had a similar path as scout. diagnosed with adenocarcinoma three years ago. she had surgery followed by 20 doses of definitive radiation. cancer recurred 20 months later . we did 5 sessions of IMRT and were told she'd have 4-6 good months. (same doctor as dash - please read all of dashdog's posts as jan, the creator of this site, is the most knowledgeable and most compassionate of all!!!) that was about 15 months ago.
main side effect is that cataracts kicked in a couple of years after the surgery and her eyesight has deteriorated greatly. she's close to blind now, i would say, but still gets around and plays and swims. we just can't move the furniture around!
so i do recommend the radiation as it gave tillie - and scout -many more months than expected. as erica mentioned you can get free advice from CSU, one of the finest vet schools in the country. but the key is: is there a good veterinary oncologist with access to targetted radiation in your area?
Yes, this list has been very quiet. Since Dashdog is gone, not much to read. However, Ziggy is still here and still struggling along. What do you do with a 13 year old dog that you love mightily., who is still eating - good appetitie, still walking..although with some difficulty....but has constant nose bleeds even to the point of hemmorhages and no longer has control over his bowels. In other words, here is a dog who does not seem to be in pain, still has some quality of life, but who I must follow around with a mop and a bucket litterally 24 hours a day now for three months. I have tried diapers ( they fall off), letting him out every other hour, ( he manages to go once he's asleep on the bed),, keeping him off the bed ( makes him very sad since we have slept together for 13 years), or just getting tired of doing laundry two, three, sometimes four times in one day. I hate to think about killing him because he poops all over, but I am really starting to wear down. We don't do that to people, so I don't know if I can justify euthanizing him in my mind while he still seems to be conscious and not in too much pain...Well, I am just venting to the cyberworld now because, as is usually the case, these decisions must be made alone and there is really no one else who can make them for you.
It's over. Today my wife and I had to put Emmitt down. We knew this day would come but never knew it would be so soon. We held out hope that he would be like Scout and a few others and beat the odds. Things were going well up until two weeks ago. That's when the so called "roller coaster" ride started going downhill and it never stopped.
Three weeks ago when I responded to Erica regarding K9 Immunity, Emmitt was doing as well as he had been for some time. We were starting to get concerned because he looked as if he was losing weight and his left eye appeared to be tearing up a lot. We took him in for a blood panel and everything came back fine except for his thyroid levels and white blood cell count. We were given thyroid medication and an antibiotic for his blood cell count. His veterinarian expressed concern over his eye but admitted there wasn't anything that could be done about it. He had also lost two pounds...not much but we could tell. Two days after that visit to his veterinarian, he stopped eating. We tried everything-home cooked foods, baby food, pureed food, etc. The only things he ate (for a day and a half) was KFC Original Recipe (an old trick his vet had told us about) and sliced ham. He used to love his cottage cheese and flaxseed oil mixture but he gave that up too. In addition to food, he stopped taking his medications. After he snapped at me while trying to get a capsule in his mouth, I began hiding them in his food. It didn't matter what it was disguised in; he would find it and spit it out. It is as if he said "no more"...I am ready.
Last weekend he developed a limp in his left front leg and his left eye was noticeably swollen. It was like he wasn't sure where to place his feet when he walked. I'm not sure how much of it had to do with his eye but I know that was part of it. He used to love rolling in the grass but the day before yesterday, he lied down in the grass on his back and just layed there. He couldn't move. The limp got worse. He could barely stand up. Last night when I took him out I literally had to stand over him with my hands on either side so I could catch him should he fall. The amount of swelling behind his eye was beginning to have some neurological effects. His quality of life had become non existant and we knew this was the end.
No matter how hard we prepared, we could have never prepared for this. There is not a doubt that we did the right thing but we literally ache right now. My thanks goes out to those of you who have said a little prayer for us during our fight. Emmitt gave it his all but in the end, he just couldn't fight anymore. I will cherish his companionship for the rest of my life.
To all of you who are still battling this disease, keep fighting and never doubt any decisions that you make. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't change a thing. We did what we felt was best for Emmitt and got an extra year to enjoy being with him. I couldn't ask for anything more...except for one more day.
SchnauzerDad - my thoughts are with you and your family during this difficult time. None of us wants to face the inevitable, and we're all hoping for that miracle. May all your great memories of Emmitt overshadow the grief.
I do want to share one thing with the forum members. When Kisses first came back from Colorado after his radiation treatment, his kidney values went really high (BUN over 100) and, of course, he wouldn't eat. We tried everything from force feeding baby food from a syringe to fresh cooked chicken, lean ground beef and sirloin steak. Every meal was freshly prepared, and we would be estastic if he ate a few bites. Our VCA vet told me to "look at the big picture -- that he had NO quality of life and it was time to enuthanize." Fortunately, we had the sense to transfer his care to another vet who assured us that Kisses was just having a difficult time with the side effects of the radiation, with all the stress of flying on the plane alone and of being in strange surroundings. He said to give it a few weeks, and we did, and boy are we glad! It took about 6 weeks of a roller coaster ride, one hospitalization and numerous vet visits, sub Q fluid administration, various medications, etc. But he did come around. He is still fragile, but he'll be 16 in Jan., and he has other old dog health issues that he'd have even without the nasal cancer. One thing we found incredibly helpful was compounded MIRTAZAPINE for appetite stimulation. It is actually a human anti-depressant which is also used in veterinary medicine. Because he's only 14-15 lbs., it had to be compounded, but it works within 15 min., and boy does he ever EAT!!! Even with Kisses' GI issues, the medication doesn't seem to interfere or have noticeable side effects. In fact, besides putting his appetite on overdrive, it gives him more energy and he seems a lot happier. We use it sparingly because his kidneys and liver are already dealing with other meds, but on those days that he has no appetite, it is a godsend!
Forgot to put the word out. My cousin in central Texas (an hour south of Dallas) found a Golden Retriever about 8 mos. old that she thinks is purebred and is unable to keep it because of her mother's cats. She's looking for a great home for the dog if any of you know someone or are interested, please contact me.
It sounds like you did everything a good loving dog owner would do. I appreciate your advice that no matter what path you decide to take, you are doing the best you can..(paraphrasing what you said I think)...
I also am still struggling with my beloved big rottweiler/doberman 13 years old. He sure doesn't seem real happy, but he is still trying to follow me from room to room, won't let me out of his sight and still thinks he needs to try and take care of me. In the meantime, he can't hold his poop, he dribbles blood constantly from his nose and I dont' even want to go back to the Vet until it is time finally to say goodbye. The Vets have admitted there is nothing they can do, so why bother. In the meantime, i try to keep him eating ( and pooping)...and yes, there were a few times when I had to sit down and hand feed him from my own plate...he loves to eat whatever I am eating. Scrambled eggs seemed to work well when nothing else would. Well, I'm glad there is this forum to vent, because my friends just keep asking me "how's ziggy" every time we talk, and I really don't have anything to say to them...
thanks to all of you.
After reading this I just realized that my previous dog, Kalee, must have passed away from nasal cancer. We took her to the local vet and even Cornell Vet school and they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her. She had loads of mucus like rubber cement coming out of her nose. She lived about a year after that. Poor thing.
Just wanted to take a few moments to say hello. I have not abandoned this thread rather Dazzle and I were gone on a trip while old girl Jazz stayed with Grandpa and Phoenix and made sure they behaved.
I plan to post a thread about Dazzles adventures after I finish my work stretch as I came back to two nights in H--l at work and one more to go. But 15 days of no work was heaven
While at my sister's house I had a dream that Dash was standing by the bed watching me it was so vivid that I woke up expecting to see him but instead found I was not even in my own room. I also felt him standing in his navigator spot in the car during all my hours of driving..Iam sure he felt I could not do so much driving with out him.
I am greatly saddened to see that Emmitt has lost his battle too and have E-mailed Bill and his wife as I had so much hope for Emmitt as he seemed to be doing so well Bill was great support when Dash was at the end as we exchanged a few E-mails that helped me deal with it. I keep thinking as Sad as cancer is I have met some fantastic people because of the the journey with it with both my mom and with Dash.For that part of it I am thankful.
I can understand how Ziggy's mom is feeling as there is alot of time involved with his care . My dad's big dog Henry and my sisters collie Rusty both got to a point in their lives where they could not stand up on their own so if some one was not around all the time it meant alot of clean up jobs. Other then not being able to get the old hips up they were doing well but in the end it got to be too difficult to care for them. My sister still has a hard time with the decision she made to put Rusty down and it has been about 6 years not to mention he was 16 which is very old for a collie.I just saw her on my trip and I think she in turn has a hard time understanding how I am so at peace with Dash's death already. I think she and I have a different view on death and while I did have a difficult time making the decision once it was over I truly felt at peace with it.
I am always thrilled to hear how Tillie and Scout are doing..go dogs go!!!
As for Sage. I think it is already known here how thankful I was to have done the IMRT radiation even though I only chose the palliative. I think the IMRT or the stereotactic radiations such as cyberknife/ Gamma knife can buy great quality time with so few side effects even when it is just done as palliative care. Yes they are very expensive but for me the cost was worth the improved quality of life it did give Dash. I have no regrets doing it and spending the money to do so but I also work in a job where I have not been cut back in hours or pay so have not suffered from a financial point of view. I am encouraged by the fact that last time I heard from Bears dad that Bear was still doing well by using the budwig protocol and other supplements. Cancer is a different story for each dog some get blessed with slow growing tumors and some get condemmed with very rapid ones. Some respond to different treatments well and others do not. Some seem to sail by with few down hill dips but each of us finds our self on a roller coaster ride we did not sign up for...and I am not fond of roller coasters! My advive is read the previous posts, talk to the oncologist at Colorado state if possible as with cancers new things pop up everyday. My mom took a drung during her battle called Tarceva that gave her more great quality months then anything else and yet it was not on the Market when she first learned she had lung cancer but rather became available drung her darkest hours when she needed a miracle and I think she got one in the Tarceva as she really went from the bottom of one of those roller coaster dips to the top again and managed to stay there for quite a long time before the cancer took over again. so check and see what is out ther by talking to some one in the know and learn what your options are before making any decisions. When I found out Dash had nasal cancer I worked with a couple people that had had dogs in the past with it and they both said Put him to sleep as treatment gets you nothing and is cruel..well I decided to learn my options and when I met Dr. Ayl I was glad I listened to my inner voice that said to do that as Dash and I had alot of good times because of it.The other advice I give is use this board to help work out things or to just vent as everyone here has dealt or is dealing with this cancer and are very supportive and can offer great advice that you can then chew on and figure out if it is something you can consider trying.Just knowing you are not alone in the battle really helps.If this is your first experience with cancer you will soon see that it not only invaded the life of the animal or person with it but the lives of all in involed in that life. Best of luck and keep posting as we are here for you.
To Kalee's mom I have a friend that after seeing what Dash went through now thinks that her dog also died of nasal cancer a few years ago and I think just knowing that has helped her find peace after all this time.
Hugs to all. have to go walk dogs and get ready for a fun(?) night at work. Jan
Last edited by Dashdog; 11-07-2009 at 05:06 PM..
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to sage's mom-
So sorry to SchnauzerDad
