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Old 10-21-2015, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,179 posts, read 3,849,305 times
Reputation: 2478

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When I was young, I remember asking my mom where Cleveland was on a map. She pointed to it, and it seemed very obvious to me that it was in the Northeast. When she told me it was the midwest, I was confused. It's neither middle nor west. Geographically, it's definitely in the Northeastern part of the US. Culturally it's a cross between Eastern cities like Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Rochester, and Philadelphia, and midwest cities like Detroit and Chicago.

 
Old 10-21-2015, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,227,304 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
When I was young, I remember asking my mom where Cleveland was on a map. She pointed to it, and it seemed very obvious to me that it was in the Northeast. When she told me it was the midwest, I was confused. It's neither middle nor west. Geographically, it's definitely in the Northeastern part of the US. Culturally it's a cross between Eastern cities like Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Rochester, and Philadelphia, and midwest cities like Detroit and Chicago.
You're in a minority view there.
 
Old 10-21-2015, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,227,304 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Ummm, this isn't meant to be a serious thread. Earlier I stated the reason I made this thread was to show the ridiculous notion that states can somehow morph into the Northeast because of arbitrary traits. Basically, even if 100% of Ohioans think they're Midwestern, their state shares enough characteristics with Northeastern (true Northeast not "Northeast lite") states that it stands the test of scrutiny much better than some wannabes.
Bull. Cincinnatians and especially St. louisans don't front their o's. The fact you think people from St. Louis front their o's like Baltimore shows me you have no idea what you're talking about. Good luck on your mindless campaign. If Missouri can morph from the South to the Midwest, Maryland can become an overall Northeastern state culturally and linguistically which the majority of it has done. I think it's time to just admit we disagree instead of trying to one up each other. Good luck on your campaign I'm sick of being a part of it.

Last edited by U146; 10-21-2015 at 10:04 PM..
 
Old 10-21-2015, 10:05 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,847,498 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Bull. Cincinnatians and especially St. louisans don't front their o's. The fact you think people from St. Louis front their o's like Baltimore shows me you have no idea what you're talking about. Good luck on your mindless campaign. If Missouri can morph from the South to the Midwest, Maryland can become an overall Northeastern state culturally and linguistically which the majority of it has done. I think it's time to just admit we disagree instead of trying to one up each other. Good luck on your campaign I'm sick of being a part of it.
Even if that was true (which it isn't), then that would make the Cincy dialect more Northern than anything out of the Mid-Atlantic, giving more credence to the "Northeastern" theory at least linguistically.

But this isn't the case. They do front their o's in Cincy. I agree St. Louis is a different animal but it is influenced by Northern Cities Vowel Shift. No other Midland dialect is influenced by this except St. Louis.
 
Old 10-21-2015, 10:53 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,523 posts, read 17,740,343 times
Reputation: 30806
Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
Bull. Cincinnatians and especially St. louisans don't front their o's.
Give up right here. I hear it on a daily basis. Maybe they don't in St. Louis, but they do in Cincinnati.
 
Old 10-21-2015, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Arch City
1,724 posts, read 1,227,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Give up right here. I hear it on a daily basis. Maybe they don't in St. Louis, but they do in Cincinnati.
How can you hear it on a daily basis when you're in Albuquerque? Every Cincinnatian I've ever met, and I've met many, along with famous people like Jerry Springer, don't front their o's. Unless all these people have been to lying to me about where they are from, I'm sticking to my original belief. I was done with this debate anyway, who invited you to pester me?
 
Old 10-22-2015, 03:40 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,222 posts, read 17,963,194 times
Reputation: 14663
Ohio is the first state to come from the old Northwest Territory, thereby making it the bedrock of the Midwest.
 
Old 10-22-2015, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,179 posts, read 3,849,305 times
Reputation: 2478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi View Post
Ohio is the first state to come from the old Northwest Territory, thereby making it the bedrock of the Midwest.
It's not that simple. Northeast Ohio was once a part of Connecticut.
 
Old 10-22-2015, 11:21 AM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,847,498 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by U146 View Post
How can you hear it on a daily basis when you're in Albuquerque? Every Cincinnatian I've ever met, and I've met many, along with famous people like Jerry Springer, don't front their o's. Unless all these people have been to lying to me about where they are from, I'm sticking to my original belief. I was done with this debate anyway, who invited you to pester me?
Jerry Springer fronts his o's to the same degree David Brenner (Philadelphian) does. Not at all. But does that stop David Brenner from sounding like a Philadelphian? Not every person from a city is going to have every single trait of a localized accent.

There's a Democratic state Rep (her last name is Polish but it escapes me) from Baltimore. She doesn't front her o's at ALL yet she is thought to have a Baltimore accent. The funny thing about Midland dialects is that speakers rarely possess every trait unlike Northern or Southern dialects, where it's more likely you'll find speakers who have textbook regional speech. There are people in Pittsburgh who don't say "hahs" for house. Honestly when I hear Baltimore people who don't front their o sounds, they sound kinda Midwestern and less Southern.
 
Old 10-22-2015, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,427 posts, read 11,929,235 times
Reputation: 10539
I'm almost certain I made this point many pages (and months ago) but the problem with arguing this point is there is absolutely nothing which culturally unifies either the Northeast or the Midwest. The South is the only part of the country which happens to be a geographic region and a definable culture. The West is somewhat arguable - there certainly isn't a distinct culture which encompasses all of it, but the unique landforms of the west gives it its own character. In contrast, virtually everything distinctive you can point to about a given place in the Northeast (accent, politics, vernacular housing, landforms, climate, etc) will not be shared with parts of the Northeast, and will be shared with parts of the Midwest. And vice versa.

Thus, the Midwest and Northeast only make sense as geographic regions defined by the census. Any attempt to find commonalities beyond this is fruitless. The Census says Ohio is in the Midwest, hence it is.
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