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And it's racial strife and forced loyalty like this that is the reason I wanted to go out West after college.
And tell me this: Why is it that Hispanics and Asians don't face as much forced pressures to only stick with their own race or be on "the other side" and face social ridicule. Because this is all I've learned from the past few posts.
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Originally Posted by Akhenaton06
When you say "pre-Civil Rights" and reference that era, I'm not sure if you're referring to that actual time period or the attitude associated with it, but just to let you know, I'm only 30 years old.
If you attended college at all, you should have been able to find Blacks who embraced the positive side of life--unless you just consciously rejected all things culturally Black, regardless of value.
There were plenty of cool blacks I met who embraced things of the "black culture" while in college. The thing about it is that we didn't have a lot of similar interests. I was raised a significant part of my life outside of the "black culture" and hence picked up and liked a lot of things that weren't exactly embraced by most blacks. I personally despise things about the "ghetto culture" like mainstream rap, Ebonics, and the "thug life," and I'll be unapologetic about my loathing of that subculture. As for the positive things about the "black culture" like gospel, R&B, Baptism/AME, soul food, etc, I don't really have a problem with those things (as I mentioned way earlier in this thread). It's just that I'm not too indulged in those positive things of the black culture, hence there wasn't much of a connection with most other successful blacks who strongly stuck to their culture, just mutual respect and frequent association.
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Originally Posted by cordtwo
I was also reading an article about successful blacks in the DC area. DC has some of the highest paying jobs in the country. There are plenty of African-Americans up there and I know the majority of them are not in projects... Out of all of my black classmates that I went to school with and graduated with, only one of them went to prison. Most are going to college, some are not. Most whites I know are going to college, some are not. The media wants you to think that we are failing that bad as a race but we are not. A lot of times it is not worth watching the 6PM news. It is pretty bad for a guy to post disgusting things about his race in front of the whole country. I don't see no other race putting their people down to that degree. When other races experience certain things they keep it to themselves and keep it out of the media. And to think that people of other races are not talking about your stupidity right, you are senseless. They probably are laughing at how you are making a idiot of yourself and your race in front of everyone. Do you really think white people get on blogs and bash their race for the black community to read??? Do you know how many Black people are college educated nowadays??? I think you should run to the bookstore as soon as possible and start reading on your own race. Like I said earlier I have had many problems with many people. I don't take that against them, I just pray for them. By facing these difficulties in life, it makes me a stronger and wiser person.
More power to you for having such a "quick to forgive and forget" attitude. But since you have a knowledge of the DC area, could you tell me exactly where these "upscale young professional black neighborhoods" are? The Shaw/Howard U area has nothing in it that's remotely upscale. U Street is getting invaded by racist liberal whites. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of successful blacks in the DC area, but most of them aren't in the city itself; that's unless you count the few blacks in the white neighborhoods, but I guess according to the "black culture of today" they wouldn't count as being black enough? Most of the successful blacks are in their 30s and older living in suburbs. And since I just got out of college, I'm not exactly ready to settle with a wife, house, and dog just yet.
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Originally Posted by Akhenaton06
This is patently false. While that attitude is much too pervasive among some Blacks, to broadbrush all Blacks, or even all younger Blacks, like this is just plain ol' wrong. But maybe because you're more of an outsider looking in (at least that's what I ascertained from what you've previously stated about yourself), you don't personally know any Black youth who might actually enjoy hip hop, but are responsible, smart, making good grades, etc. I know them. They are my younger cousins, my mentees, young people at my church, etc. They exist and are not the extinct species you are making them out to be.
But are they truly accepted, particularly by their black peers? And have they consistently been accepted throughout their childhood by their own peers? That can make the difference between embracing the black culture and wanting to find solace elsewhere. At least it did for me, and especially for the last several years when I faced extreme jealousy and bashing from my own for not being "black enough" (this is coincidentally when gangsta/Southern rap became overblown and mainstream all throughout the country).
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And to keep this on topic. Would you really think I, myself, would really fit in with the black meccas like Atlanta? Or how about other cites in the South that have a strong black middle/upper class like Dallas, Charlotte, and Houston. Could I really just waltz in there with being black & educated as the only means of being embraced by the black professional & middle class? Or is there more to it than that?
Last edited by Do a Barrel Roll; 01-04-2010 at 11:15 PM..
Yet you make all of these definitive, authoritative statements about something you've not experienced firsthand.
I honestly hadn't seen it from your view, or from the view of someone who does live it on a daily basis. Being multiracial/part black, I thought I could comment on the ills of black society, but I guess I'm not black in the most salient sense - culturally. I live in Niles, Michigan: not exactly a pillar of diversity. I went to all-white schools. All of my close friends are white. My church is predominantly white. The university I attended was 85% white. The few black contacts I have come from similar backgrounds as I do. Although I'm black, I haven't really lived the black experience. I've commented on and offered criticism to a community that I'm assumed to be a part of, but in reality have only loose associations to. While I stand by my overall opinion, I also realize that I can't judge people without walking a mile in their shoes. I was wrong in passing judgement on the black community. I apologize.
Although I knew that my comments would ruffle some feathers, I hate that I've obviously deeply offended so many people. For that I'm sorry.
And it's racial strife and forced loyalty like this that is the reason I wanted to go out West after college.
And tell me this: Why is it that Hispanics and Asians don't face as much forced pressures to only stick with their own race or be on "the other side" and face social ridicule. Because this is all I've learned from the past few posts.
I don't know what it's like over there but over here on campus Asians stick together like crazy. I would argue they do it better than blacks do. The Asian Greek clubs seem to be advertising themselves much better than the Alphas, Omegas, AKA's and Deltas are over here. The asian household is the same way, they came over here and achieved success but very few of them do it and shun their own culture.
That's why I have a problem when fly writer argues that blacks are the only ones that don't assimilate. The only difference between blacks and asians is that asians have a reputation for being "smarter" you could say. Therefore nobody pays attention to their culture. If asians were having as many problems as blacks their culture would be the scapegoats just like black culture is today. So don't act like you have to assimilate into this "mainstream American culture" to be successful and not looked down upon because that's not hte truth. But like I said this part of my post is more directed at flywriter.
And it's racial strife and forced loyalty like this that is the reason I wanted to go out West after college.
And tell me this: Why is it that Hispanics and Asians don't face as much forced pressures to only stick with their own race or be on "the other side" and face social ridicule. Because this is all I've learned from the past few posts.
There were plenty of cool blacks I met who embraced things of the "black culture" while in college. The thing about it is that we didn't have a lot of similar interests. I was raised a significant part of my life outside of the "black culture" and hence picked up and liked a lot of things that weren't exactly embraced by most blacks. I personally despise things about the "ghetto culture" like mainstream rap, Ebonics, and the "thug life," and I'll be unapologetic about my loathing of that subculture. As for the positive things about the "black culture" like gospel, R&B, Baptism/AME, soul food, etc, I don't really have a problem with those things (as I mentioned way earlier in this thread). It's just that I'm not too indulged in those positive things of the black culture, hence there wasn't much of a connection with most other successful blacks who strongly stuck to their culture, just mutual respect and frequent association.
More power to you for having such a "quick to forgive and forget" attitude. But since you have a knowledge of the DC area, could you tell me exactly where these "upscale young professional black neighborhoods" are? The Shaw/Howard U area has nothing in it that's remotely upscale. U Street is getting invaded by racist liberal whites. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of successful blacks in the DC area, but most of them aren't in the city itself; that's unless you count the few blacks in the white neighborhoods, but I guess according to the "black culture of today" they wouldn't count as being black enough? Most of the successful blacks are in their 30s and older living in suburbs. And since I just got out of college, I'm not exactly ready to settle with a wife, house, and dog just yet.
But are they truly accepted, particularly by their black peers? And have they consistently been accepted throughout their childhood by their own peers? That can make the difference between embracing the black culture and wanting to find solace elsewhere. At least it did for me, and especially for the last several years when I faced extreme jealousy and bashing from my own for not being "black enough" (this is coincidentally when gangsta/Southern rap became overblown and mainstream all throughout the country).
From experience:
I grew up in a rather diverse and mixed-income neighborhood; however, the majority of my friends were white and I picked up on some things from them. My family and blacks friends would joke with me about me being white and calling me white boy. One of my closets friends say I'm the whitest black dude she's ever known. Now while I have mixed amount of friends; the majority of my friends are black.
Now from what you've stated; it seems people are mostly like insulting you and being more serious than actually being playful with you. I've been to DC and I'll admit that Texas as a whole would be more accepting to you, but also don't expect people not to talk about you because they will.
The difference between me and you though is I don't look down on my race and feel I belong or should surround myself with whites because of how I was brought up and raised. I can get along with anybody as long as they are cool. I don't take race into consideration and make generalizations about each ethnic group. I don't see whites as friendly, accepting, and better. I don't see blacks as ghetto, violent, and low. Truely, I don't take race into consideration when making friends. That's how it should be with you and until you realize that not all blacks are bad and not to expect everytime you interact with a black that they will judge; life will be better.
I don't know what it's like over there but over here on campus Asians stick together like crazy. I would argue they do it better than blacks do. The Asian Greek clubs seem to be advertising themselves much better than the Alphas, Omegas, AKA's and Deltas are over here. The asian household is the same way, they came over here and achieved success but very few of them do it and shun their own culture.
In my personal observation, the Asian community heavily embraces their educated. This includes the parents, the elders, AND the peers, even the female girls/teens. I have seen plenty of Asian males who were proudly and apologetically smart, and self-proclaimed "geeks/nerds" but always had a huge group of friends, a healthy social life, and their fair share of attraction from females, whether platonic or sexual. And this was during their teen years, not just during their college days when "everyone" who was smart got the attention and girls.
This, from my personal experience, hasn't been the case for the blacks I knew, especially for myself. This is even a problem for whites, but not to this dire extent.
I don't know what it's like over there but over here on campus Asians stick together like crazy. I would argue they do it better than blacks do. The Asian Greek clubs seem to be advertising themselves much better than the Alphas, Omegas, AKA's and Deltas are over here. The asian household is the same way, they came over here and achieved success but very few of them do it and shun their own culture.
Asians are probably the most vehement about assimilating into broader American culture. Have you looked at their marriage statistics? For women and men it ranges from the 30%'s to the 60%'s for marrying non-Asians. I don't think that example serves your point at all.
For the record, I don't agree with assimilating into "mainstream American culture" because I abhor "mainstream American culture" as it's commonly understood to be by the people who take those positions. People should enjoy the culture they want to enjoy irrespective of their race. But I have seen a lot of ethno-centrism in this thread and a lot of rationalising of the proto-fascist idea that people should be expected to adhere to a culture based on their ethnicity.
There were plenty of cool blacks I met who embraced things of the "black culture" while in college. The thing about it is that we didn't have a lot of similar interests. I was raised a significant part of my life outside of the "black culture" and hence picked up and liked a lot of things that weren't exactly embraced by most blacks. I personally despise things about the "ghetto culture" like mainstream rap, Ebonics, and the "thug life," and I'll be unapologetic about my loathing of that subculture. As for the positive things about the "black culture" like gospel, R&B, Baptism/AME, soul food, etc, I don't really have a problem with those things (as I mentioned way earlier in this thread). It's just that I'm not too indulged in those positive things of the black culture, hence there wasn't much of a connection with most other successful blacks who strongly stuck to their culture, just mutual respect and frequent association.
OK, now I understand a bit more where you're coming from. Not that it will solve your problem in any immediate way, but have you ever considered possibly trying to experience those positive aspects of Black culture in any way? After all, branching out and trying new things shouldn't just be applied to Black folks who "do Black things."
Quote:
But are they truly accepted, particularly by their black peers? And have they consistently been accepted throughout their childhood by their own peers? That can make the difference between embracing the black culture and wanting to find solace elsewhere. At least it did for me, and especially for the last several years when I faced extreme jealousy and bashing from my own for not being "black enough" (this is coincidentally when gangsta/Southern rap became overblown and mainstream all throughout the country).
They are indeed accepted, and it goes back to what I said earlier. They are doing well in school and they have not abandoned the positive aspects of Black culture; the two should not be confused and certainly do not go hand in hand. It corresponds to my own situation while in high school. I was a bookworm and a nerd. While everyone else lamented having to do a project for the annual science fair, I loved it. Loved book fairs, was on quiz bowl teams, took pride in winning all sorts of academic achievement awards, etc. And I played basketball, played trombone on the band, liked gospel and R&B, was active in my church, etc. I got teased sometimes for being a nerd as all nerds do (I didn't dress like one, but I did wear glasses, LOL), but not for "acting White." I knew proper English and spoke it in class, but was relaxed around friends and family and used slang--still do.
Due to you not really having been exposed to positive aspects of Black culture and subsequently embracing them, I think that could be the reason why you were teased for "acting White." I suspect that if you got bad grades and constantly skipped school yet still didn't partake of the positive elements of Black culture, you'd still get teased for not being "Black enough."
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And to keep this on topic. Would you really think I, myself, would really fit in with the black meccas like Atlanta? Or how about other cites in the South that have a strong black middle/upper class like Dallas, Charlotte, and Houston. Could I really just waltz in there with being black & educated as the only means of being embraced by the black professional & middle class? Or is there more to it than that?
Honestly, I think somewhere like Denver or the Pacific Northwest would be more to your liking.
I honestly hadn't seen it from your view, or from the view of someone who does live it on a daily basis. Being multiracial/part black, I thought I could comment on the ills of black society, but I guess I'm not black in the most salient sense - culturally. I live in Niles, Michigan: not exactly a pillar of diversity. I went to all-white schools. All of my close friends are white. My church is predominantly white. The university I attended was 85% white. The few black contacts I have come from similar backgrounds as I do. Although I'm black, I haven't really lived the black experience. I've commented on and offered criticism to a community that I'm assumed to be a part of, but in reality have only loose associations to. While I stand by my overall opinion, I also realize that I can't judge people without walking a mile in their shoes. I was wrong in passing judgement on the black community. I apologize.
Although I knew that my comments would ruffle some feathers, I hate that I've obviously deeply offended so many people. For that I'm sorry.
Apology accepted. I just hope that you will look beyond popular, negative media images and realize there's a whoooooole lot of good that never gets reported on in the Black community.
Hmmm, I see this trainwreck of a thread is still progressing nicely. What was the point of it again? To comfort a "non-stereotypical black" in his time of need and help him find an interracial relationship and pervasive acceptance among his (hopefully) white peers?
Has anyone actually located this promised land, definitively? I've looked through the thread, and there are no definite answers.
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