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one example of that is Clayton County in Atlanta. It was pleasant. But once the middle class blacks started moving into the county, the whites left. Now the county is Predominately black. No projects are here either, no ghettos, nothing but houses and apartments.
Good point but Clayton county isn't 100% middle class though. Also nowadays you have the issue of gentrification where white folks are moving into historically black neighborhoods. The poorer blacks living there no longer can afford to live there and get mad at white outsiders for trying to kick them out of their neighborhood. So while yes there's still white flight but let's not deny our own self segregation. Of course let me contradict myself by saying that well the self segregation is a little justified people don't want to have to worry about racism or other issues.
Last edited by terrence81; 01-05-2010 at 09:06 AM..
Good point but Clayton county isn't 100% middle class though. Also nowadays you have the issue of gentrification where white folks are moving into historically black neighborhoods. The poorer blacks living there no longer can afford to live there and get mad at white outsiders for trying to kick them out of their neighborhood. So while yes there's still white flight but let's not deny our own self segregation.
Really, I used the county that I live in as an example. But where did I deny our own self segregation??? Like I said before I am done with this thread. So there is no need to include me in anything, or try to pinpoint something that I said. I am not the one who's looking for a place to move too. I am in Atlanta and I am happy. I know I have my ups and downs, but Atlanta is my home and I'm happy with myself.
Hmmm, I see this trainwreck of a thread is still progressing nicely. What was the point of it again? To comfort a "non-stereotypical black" in his time of need and help him find an interracial relationship and pervasive acceptance among his (hopefully) white peers?
Has anyone actually located this promised land, definitively? I've looked through the thread, and there are no definite answers.
Careful your fangs are showing. No actually I can see both sides of the argument. I think its a good topic but at the same time can see why one would disagree.
On one hand there's the OP from way back when, finding a place that's accepting without the ridicule of "acting white" but without "racist white liberals". Yeah that place doesn't exist.
To be honest the OPs experience with the DC area regarding racial acceptance is so opposite from mine. I can't think of better city for someone like himself this is one of the most educated parts of America, PG county has one of the highest if not THE highest concentration of black wealth in the country, and I've never seen so many interracial relationships. There are a lot of reasons to want to leave the DC area traffic, high cost of living, and just try to find parking on U street on a Friday night. But honestly black folks making fun of me seems well...small. I mean don't hang out with those people. Find new people or move to VA or Montgomery county. To me its a simple problem that can solve itself.
On the other hand I think it does go to a deeper issue: that being black has to have all these definitions and rules. Being any other race in America surely doesn't have any such stipulations. How many jokes do comedians make about what black people do and do not do? And as others have mentioned immigrants from other countries are expected to assimiliate and are still able to hold onto their cultural idenity. It does seem that with being black you have to conform you can't just be.
I can totally relate in that sense. I mean I remember as a teenager being so anxious if I went to Wherehouse Music to buy a CD and worried about the questioning stares of the sales clerk as I bypassed the rap section and picked out Garbage, Smashing Pumpkins, or Marylin Manson.
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Originally Posted by UTHORNS96
Why is it necessary to assimilate into "mainstream American culture"? If someone is minding their own business and not bothering anyone what's wrong with the way they're living? Why should blacks make attemps to "broaden their horizons" when there are many whites who refuse to do the same thing when it comes to black culture? And i'm not saying these whites are racist, i've met some very friendly whites but they still had no clue about what black culture was. Why should blacks try to assimilate into their culture if that haven't attempted to learn something about our's? Espescially when all things considered this country wasn't built with blacks in mind in the first place.
I enjoy expanding my horizons and I encourage others to do so as well but by no means is it a requirement.
Using ebonics has nothing to do with whether someone is a good or bad person or not. Because honestly, if you really listen and pay attention almost nobody speaks proper english these days. It's just certain types of english become the scapegoat.
What is dressing in a ghetto Hip-Hop way? I imagine if we all started shopping at American Eagle and Hollister that would make us better people?
To me it's not about neccesarily assimilating but being bogged down with rules and regulations for being black. Some of it is just aesthetics.
There's nothing wrong with using ebonics of course. But I will admit that I don't want to hang out with folks who talk too heavily like that for one thing I can't understand them. Again this is a small aesthetics issue versus important to the fabric of this country. I'm not hotty of the year but the worst way to put me off is to start hitting on me and not speaking semi-proper English. Especially online. I'm like do you realize how much trouble you went through purposelly spelling your words incorrectly?
American Eagle and Hollister are my favorite stores for casual stuff. But there is an implication that those are "white" stores and therefore I shouldn't be shopping there. I understand that you didn't specifically tell me not to shop there, so don't get defensive but there is this unofficial rule book that says black can't shop there.
At the same time I do hang out with more white folks in VA and DC than I did in Georgia and I'm starting to see that some just don't have a clue.
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Originally Posted by UTHORNS96
I don't see anything wrong if a person did where FUBU. And you're showing how much you know about black culture once again. I haven't seen anybody wearing FUBU in years. What does FUBU and fifty nine fifty caps have to do with being a thug? Absolutely nothing at all.
Someone doesn't keep up with fashion trends and they suddenly don't know enough about black culture? I'm sorry I'm not a fan of the thug look. But that's asethetics and really doesn't matter at the end of the day. There are other problems in the black community to address before we worry about clothes. As long as you're not showing up to a job interview in Roca wear (see how current I am?) then I say live and let live. I dont' like it but then I'd be quite the hypocrite to tell someone how to dress huh?
Really, I used the county that I live in as an example. But where did I deny our own self segregation??? Like I said before I am done with this thread. So there is no need to include me in anything, or try to pinpoint something that I said. I am not the one who's looking for a place to move too. I am in Atlanta and I am happy. I know I have my ups and downs, but Atlanta is my home and I'm happy with myself.
Calm down. That sounds a little too "Keep my name out of yo' mouth folk." for the situation.
I didn't say that you personally denied anything. I said "let's not" and left it at that. I felt bringing another factor into the equation was appropriate.
I like Atlanta too, always a fun time. But I also like the DC area and don't really see the point in moving. Not because places like Atlanta or Houston or Denver aren't awesome but because well...moving sucks and why move for such a small reason?
Last edited by terrence81; 01-05-2010 at 10:23 AM..
Maybe its age. You know I'm not saying I'm old man winter I'm just 28. But at 28 I can say I would never ever let someone's ugly stares keeping me from buying whatever music I wanted (yes yes I realize that most music is obtained online) or shop at whatever store. When I was 15 or 16 I certainly couldn't say the same statement. So yeah on one hand it sucks that black folks have to have rulebooks that other races seem to be lacking on the other hand as time goes by the little stuff doesn't matter.
Careful your fangs are showing. No actually I can see both sides of the argument. I think its a good topic but at the same time can see why one would disagree.
On one hand there's the OP from way back when, finding a place that's accepting without the ridicule of "acting white" but without "racist white liberals". Yeah that place doesn't exist.
To be honest the OPs experience with the DC area regarding racial acceptance is so opposite from mine. I can't think of better city for someone like himself this is one of the most educated parts of America, PG county has one of the highest if not THE highest concentration of black wealth in the country, and I've never seen so many interracial relationships. There are a lot of reasons to want to leave the DC area traffic, high cost of living, and just try to find parking on U street on a Friday night. But honestly black folks making fun of me seems well...small. I mean don't hang out with those people. Find new people or move to VA or Montgomery county. To me its a simple problem that can solve itself.
I've only been to DC once, but I agree. From what I have heard, it does seem like one of the better areas for non-stereotypical blacks. I could never live there, because I don't like the south and big cities aren't my thing, but it does seem like one of the more progressive areas.
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On the other hand I think it does go to a deeper issue: that being black has to have all these definitions and rules. Being any other race in America surely doesn't have any such stipulations. How many jokes do comedians make about what black people do and do not do? And as others have mentioned immigrants from other countries are expected to assimiliate and are still able to hold onto their cultural idenity. It does seem that with being black you have to conform you can't just be.
I totally agree. When do you hear about Mexicans being bashed for not being Mexican enough, or Asians being bashed for not being Asian enough? Why does being black have to come with all of the excess baggage? Why do you have to conform to a specific way of life to be accepted? Also, another thing that bothers me is that from my experience, many blacks insist that if you are mixed with black, you should consider yourself exclusively black. Those who don't are ostracized. For example, take Tiger Woods, who is exactly 1/4 Black, 1/4 White, 1/4 Asian, and 1/4 Native American. He considers himself a "Cablinasian," yet he was blasted by many blacks for not identifying as black. Also, I've noticed this from my own experience. I am a multiracial American, mixed with black. Yes, I am Black, but I am also White and Native American. All three are important parts of my heritage. However, society pressures me to deny the White and Native parts of me, and accept only the African-American part.
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I can totally relate in that sense. I mean I remember as a teenager being so anxious if I went to Wherehouse Music to buy a CD and worried about the questioning stares of the sales clerk as I bypassed the rap section and picked out Garbage, Smashing Pumpkins, or Marylin Manson.
First of all, that is SO '90s.
Second of all, I totally agree. I've gotten those same looks when people find out what types of music I listen to, which is not the type commonly associated with blacks. I listen mostly to rock, country, and folk music.
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To me it's not about neccesarily assimilating but being bogged down with rules and regulations for being black. Some of it is just aesthetics.
I fully agree. Why should I be bogged down with rules based on my skin color?
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There's nothing wrong with using ebonics of course. But I will admit that I don't want to hang out with folks who talk too heavily like that for one thing I can't understand them. Again this is a small aesthetics issue versus important to the fabric of this country. I'm not hotty of the year but the worst way to put me off is to start hitting on me and not speaking semi-proper English. Especially online. I'm like do you realize how much trouble you went through purposelly spelling your words incorrectly?
The problem I have with ebonics is that it's incorrect English, and it causes others to view the speaker as uneducated or unintelligent. There is a proper way to speak the English language, and ebonics clashes with that. It also reinforces the racist stereotypes that blacks are stupid and uneducated, which is something that absolutely sickens me.
Also, nothing puts me off more than seeing a woman swearing excessively, misspelling, and using improper English. Just my personal view.
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American Eagle and Hollister are my favorite stores for casual stuff. But there is an implication that those are "white" stores and therefore I shouldn't be shopping there. I understand that you didn't specifically tell me not to shop there, so don't get defensive but there is this unofficial rule book that says black can't shop there.
Ninety percent of my casual stuff comes from either Am. Eagle or Hollister. Usually I don't get any looks from going there. However, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one.
Someone doesn't keep up with fashion trends and they suddenly don't know enough about black culture? I'm sorry I'm not a fan of the thug look. But that's asethetics and really doesn't matter at the end of the day. There are other problems in the black community to address before we worry about clothes. As long as you're not showing up to a job interview in Roca wear (see how current I am?) then I say live and let live. I dont' like it but then I'd be quite the hypocrite to tell someone how to dress huh?
I never said not keeping up with fashion trends equated to not knowing enough about black culture. I made that statement based on the history of his posts. Personally, i'm not big on keeping up with trends, however I would never try to tell someone what they're doing is wrong if I don't even know what exactly they're doing.
Wow, I can imagine how you must have felt growing up in the deep south. I lived in the Atlanta area for a while as a kid (Gwinnett County), and I know what you mean.
Canada is a very colorblind society, and it's definitely something I admire about the country. Living in Michigan, I come into contact with a lot of Canadians, and they all say it is much less racial than here.
Be careful of that. While I understand what you are implying, it definitely hasn't been perfect for Black folks there either. Ask some Black folks from Nova Scotia and SW Ontario about that.
However, I am wary of the desires of Blacks who intertain these fantasies of finding racial utopia in Europe/Canada/Australia, etc. It's not hard to be tolerant when the fact is your country is still mostly 90% white, as is the case in Europe. Certainly, if you culturally find yourself more drawn to classical western ideas, then you will find much more acceptance amongst whites and white societies. However, I think it's a ruse to lambast the US in regards to race relations when most of these other industrialised countries don't have enough minorites (yet) to even cuase substansial friction.
If a whole bunch of what Fairfaxian calls "Stereotypical" Blacks where to up and transplant themselves in say, Sweden, I can imagine the "tolerance" for Blacks would decline quite substancially.
Canada has them too, but since the country is about 2.5% Black, I think it is "drowned out" more there. Toronto has had a relative issue with gun play and gangs too. While it is tame in comparison to US cities, it's there.
I never said not keeping up with fashion trends equated to not knowing enough about black culture. I made that statement based on the history of his posts. Personally, i'm not big on keeping up with trends, however I would never try to tell someone what they're doing is wrong if I don't even know what exactly they're doing.
No but that's how I interpretted it. I mean you said that if he knew about black culture he'd know about fubu not being popular anymore. Honestly I'm black and I know I didn't know anything about Fubu. I don't wear that stuff so why would the guy that just said that he does American Eagle and Hollister mostly know about that stuff? It goes back to my point about there being a set of rules to be black. By being black one is required to know that Fubu is played out. And like I said I just don't like the look. So I'll gladly admit my own bias.
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Like I said before I am done with this thread. So there is no need to include me in anything, or try to pinpoint something that I said. I am not the one who's looking for a place to move too. I am in Atlanta and I am happy. I know I have my ups and downs, but Atlanta is my home and I'm happy with myself.
