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Which is a good place to reiterate my map, the Telsur Southern speech map (red line) combined with the US Census ancestry map.
Yes, it is a pretty good map. Notice that most of Virginia, Kentucky and even West Virginia are really "Southern" despite all the nay sayers. Also the South goes deep into Texas and even southern Missouri.
As for the Florida question, there are many, many parts of the state that are culturally Southern. Likewise, there are other parts of Florida that aren't even culturally American (as in the U.S.). So, I'd have to agree with those who say that Florida is a complicated state to classify. This is especially true if one considers that the least southern part of the state is also its most populated. If someone were to ask me to give guidance to its culture, I'd say that its Southerness is generally more prevalent the further North and inland that you go. Conversely, the more Southern and coastal you go, the less Southern it is. Just to complicate it some more, the Southeast coast of Florida has a decidedly different culture than the Southwest coast of Florida. Latin culture is stronger on the Southeast coast than the Southwestern coast. Northeastern infuence is greater in the Southeast while Midwestern influence is greater in the Southwest.
I agree. Didn't realize the Southwest Coast had a "MidWestern" culture though, interesting. I've only been to Tampa on that side, maye it was MidWestern, all I know is that it wasn't Southern.
Yes, it is a pretty good map. Notice that most of Virginia, Kentucky and even West Virginia are really "Southern" despite all the nay sayers. Also the South goes deep into Texas and even southern Missouri.
Thank you, LINative. I updated the map a bit, I hope it isn't too confusing now. I added 2 more pieces of data. The first is the purple line, within which are the states where the major religious tradition is Evangelical Christian, these are also the states mostly where the Baptist religion is the major religion. The information on Evangelical numbers comes from the Pew Religion Survey, which unfortunately just does it by state, not county. U.S. Religion Map and Religious Populations - U.S. Religious Landscape Study - Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
The base map is the 2000 US Census map of Ancestry.
For the historically minded, the dark green line represents those areas and states that formally voted, either by popular vote or convention, to secede from the United States in 1860-1861. It should be noted, of course, that Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri and Oklahoma territory gave significant support to the Confederacy.
Sorry I didn't see this thread, this probably would've been a better thread to post this on so yeah im posting it here, basically I just I really wanted to show a point that I feel like most people seem to miss about Florida and its "Southern" status.
From what i've traveled around the state (I live in South Florida) and from what I've heard from others who have traveled/lived as well as from what I've experienced when traveling i feel like this map i made perhaps is the closest definition to what "southern" is in Florida in terms of geographic location. The state is enormous, so its unfair to say "Florida isn't southern" and even when people say that "North of 1-4 or Orlando its the only true southern" i feel like are people who either have never been to Florida or only casually went through or people who live in such extreme parts of Florida and have never actually noticed what the rest of the state looks like around them.
The stronger the red, the more "southern" the area. Naturally, parts along the coast - especially eastern dade, broward and PB counties as well as areas like ft myers, marco, naples and cape coral are also not as southern. I also indicated that parts of Tampa, especially isouth (such as sarasota) and immediately west aren't "as" southern either (although look if want to find it and look hard enough and you'll definitely feel at home!). Finally, Orlando/disney/kissimmee and parts along the space coast (melbourne, vero beach, jupiter) may also have a lot of transplants so i left them pretty non-red as well. finally i head ppl say that even the first coast and NE florida coastlines may have transplants so i figured areas along the coast ought to be whiter as well.
Ppl may wonder why such a large chunk of S. FLA is red, especially when practically EVERYONE unanimously declares anything south of okeechobee to be new york or something. Well in case you're not a local or you've never been there's noting about the central southern part of florida that is remotely NEastern. It is literally rural agricultural land, small redneck towns, really small clusters of people who I guess live in "towns" and finally ALL WILDERNESS AND SWAMPLAND/ORANGE GROVES/PINE FORESTS/ HAMMOCKS. Literally, big cypress that picayune fatahachee whatever forst and the everglades dominate that entire area and anyone who is isolated enough to live in the middle of a swamp is uh yeah not going to be from New Jersey or Connecticut. The few and small populations that lives along that swath is pretty dam southern. and finally North Florida is and is very proud of being Southern.
People can disagree and debate about the map but please don't say something like "FALSE NOTHING SOUTH OF ORLANDO IS SOUTHERN ITS ALL TRANSPLANTS" because thats just not true and ignorant. Even western PB and broward are pretty dam southern sometimes whenever i drive through. oh and I made two smallish white dots in gainesville and Tallahassee because i've never been but i know that UF may have ppl from all over the world and the capital may attract a lot of people from many other states.
I would say that the South begins with the Mason-Dixon Line HOWEVER, the area around Washington DC and its suburbs is an enclave of the north and is not included in the south. The South begins again where the DC sprawl ends around Fredericksburg, Virginia. Another border is somewhere south of Orlando, probaly around Palm Beach with Miami and Fort Lauderdale not in the south. In the west I would say Fort Worth is the first "southwest" or "western" city wheras Dallas is still a southern city despite it being very cosmopolitan. San Antonio is not also in the south, but East Texas including Houston is in the South.
I don't consider Oklahoma to be a southern state. Some also include Missouri in the south but most of it is not. However I would put Kentucky in the South. West Virginia is also not southern.
I would say that the South begins with the Mason-Dixon Line HOWEVER, the area around Washington DC and its suburbs is an enclave of the north and is not included in the south. The South begins again where the DC sprawl ends around Fredericksburg, Virginia. Another border is somewhere south of Orlando, probaly around Palm Beach with Miami and Fort Lauderdale not in the south. In the west I would say Fort Worth is the first "southwest" or "western" city wheras Dallas is still a southern city despite it being very cosmopolitan. San Antonio is not also in the south, but East Texas including Houston is in the South.
I don't consider Oklahoma to be a southern state. Some also include Missouri in the south but most of it is not. However I would put Kentucky in the South. West Virginia is also not southern.
The Census accurately groups Texas/Arkansas/Louisiana/Oklahoma (West South Central) together for reason = cultural and geographical commonality. Oklahoma/Texas are the western-most boundary of the South just as lower Virginia and the Carolinas are the eastern-most boundary.
If you think Dallas is Southern and OK City and Tulsa (and Fort Worth, for that matter) are not, I'd have to guess you haven't spent a lot of time in this area (South-Central). Of Fort Worth and OK City/Tulsa, Dallas is definitely the city with the most transplants....which has changed the Southern culture into much more of a melting pot.
Get outside of Dallas and into the rest of North Texas (and the vast majority of Oklahoma = not as much transplants to change the culture) then you start seeing overt Southern culture again.
Finally, as one that grew up in Oklahoma and lived in Texas for a good bit of my life, I can say that both (on the whole) are just as Southern (if not more) than Kentucky. I'm basing my opinion on time I spent in KY and also the many good folks I've met from there. Just my two cents...probably ain't worth much.
Cheers.
Last edited by Bass&Catfish2008; 05-11-2010 at 12:54 AM..
Thank you, LINative. I updated the map a bit, I hope it isn't too confusing now. I added 2 more pieces of data. The first is the purple line, within which are the states where the major religious tradition is Evangelical Christian, these are also the states mostly where the Baptist religion is the major religion. The information on Evangelical numbers comes from the Pew Religion Survey, which unfortunately just does it by state, not county. U.S. Religion Map and Religious Populations - U.S. Religious Landscape Study - Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
The base map is the 2000 US Census map of Ancestry.
For the historically minded, the dark green line represents those areas and states that formally voted, either by popular vote or convention, to secede from the United States in 1860-1861. It should be noted, of course, that Maryland, Kentucky, Missouri and Oklahoma territory gave significant support to the Confederacy.
Whoever came up with that Imaginary Map does not have much Intelligence on History and Geography because the areas in Purple should include 1/3 of Maryland and for the folx that keep saying that the South starts in Virginia I feel really sorry for them having soo much discriminatory dislike of Maryland that they would deny the state from being part of the south despite the fact that parts of VA, GA, and FL are just as northern in culture and attitude than Maryland............
So yea the South Starts in Maryland, don't like it So What, thats the Fact and there ain't nothing anybody can do to change it..........
I would say that the South begins with the Mason-Dixon Line HOWEVER, the area around Washington DC and its suburbs is an enclave of the north and is not included in the south. The South begins again where the DC sprawl ends around Fredericksburg, Virginia. Another border is somewhere south of Orlando, probaly around Palm Beach with Miami and Fort Lauderdale not in the south. In the west I would say Fort Worth is the first "southwest" or "western" city wheras Dallas is still a southern city despite it being very cosmopolitan. San Antonio is not also in the south, but East Texas including Houston is in the South.
I don't consider Oklahoma to be a southern state. Some also include Missouri in the south but most of it is not. However I would put Kentucky in the South. West Virginia is also not southern.
I can tell that you have Never been to the Maryland Eastern Shore, Southern Maryland(Southeast of DC), Northern Maryland, and Western Maryland.......
Maryland Eastern Shore and Southern Maryland is where you will find the most Southern Influence.....
I think most people just have this preconceived notion that OK is not Southern, but most don't actually have a reason. I don't see how a state that is mostly Southern Baptist, where people have Southern accents, and drink sweet tea is anything but Southern.
I think most people just have this preconceived notion that OK is not Southern, but most don't actually have a reason. I don't see how a state that is mostly Southern Baptist, where people have Southern accents, and drink sweet tea is anything but Southern.
Most people visualize Oklahoma and see the Dust Bowl and plains similar to Nebraska and Kansas. They have likely never visited Oklahoma and couldn't very well say if the culture is Southern, Midwestern, or Chinese.
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Florida Southern Question
