Gubernatorial Race 2018 (College Park, Clayton, White: condo, park, limit)

[bryantm3]

any economist will tell you that a true, perfect competition capitalist system requires that

-complete and accurate information has to be easily accessible by everyone
-there is no barrier to entering the market as a buyer or a seller, ie: anyone can buy or sell anything at any time
-there are a large number of buyers and sellers who can make an identical product.

all of these conditions we might theoretically meet one day with the internet and 3D printing.

the problem is that when you have a system of perfect competition, there are no profits. it's impossible for anyone to become "rich". so everyone who has a vested interest in staying rich, their livelihood depends on ensuring that the above situation never happens, and that people continue to believe that the current system is "free market capitalism". so even if you believe free market capitalism should be the system we use, you should be disgusted by what it has turned into.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

any economist will tell you that a true, perfect competition capitalist system requires that

-complete and accurate information has to be easily accessible by everyone
-there is no barrier to entering the market as a buyer or a seller, ie: anyone can buy or sell anything at any time
-there are a large number of buyers and sellers who can make an identical product.

all of these conditions we might theoretically meet one day with the internet and 3D printing.

the problem is that when you have a system of perfect competition, there are no profits. it's impossible for anyone to become "rich". so everyone who has a vested interest in staying rich, their livelihood depends on ensuring that the above situation never happens, and that people continue to believe that the current system is "free market capitalism". so even if you believe free market capitalism should be the system we use, you should be disgusted by what it has turned into.

We've never had laissez faire capitalism and I'm not arguing for that. I'm arguing against the rise of the this kind of thinking which I've been seeing on the left that Marxism is really just another system no better or worse than capitalism so we might as well give it a try. NO

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

We've never had laissez faire capitalism and I'm not arguing for that. I'm arguing against the rise of the this kind of thinking which I've been seeing on the left that Marxism is really just another system no better or worse than capitalism so we might as well give it a try. NO

so the current crony capitalist system where people are dying in poverty is more "fair" than a perfect free market competition system where it would be impossible for anyone to accrue massive amounts of wealth? my point is this system we have is not working anymore. it will eventually crash under its own weight if we don't fix the problem. we need to start thinking outside the box.

[bryantm3]

also would appreciate it if you read my posts thoroughly instead of trying to figure out what "side" i'm on and giving me a kneejerk response directed at a strawman. thx

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

so the current crony capitalist system where people are dying in poverty is more "fair" than a perfect free market competition system where it would be impossible for anyone to accrue massive amounts of wealth? my point is this system we have is not working anymore. it will eventually crash under its own weight if we don't fix the problem. we need to start thinking outside the box.

So your solution is to make it illegal or impossible to accrue wealth?

That is socialism and that is exactly what I am talking about. Terrible economic philosophy. It ignores human nature which dictates that some people will work harder and smarter than others.

In order to smooth out those differences and tilt the economic output more toward an average mean, you have to greatly increase the power of the government and the levers it has over society to get that outcome. That's what leads to despotism. It's been tried before multiple times and it a dismal failure every time.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

also would appreciate it if you read my posts thoroughly instead of trying to figure out what "side" i'm on and giving me a kneejerk response directed at a strawman. thx

I know what side you're on as your posts speak for themselves, and I've seen plenty of your posts prior to this as well. You're a far leftist.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

So your solution is to make it illegal or impossible to accrue wealth?

That is socialism and that is exactly what I am talking about. Terrible economic philosophy. It ignores human nature which dictates that some people will work harder and smarter than others.

In order to smooth out those differences and tilt the economic output more toward an average mean, you have to greatly increase the power of the government and the levers it has over society to get that outcome. That's what leads to despotism. It's been tried before multiple times and it a dismal failure every time.

no, that's the opposite of what i said. perfect capitalist competition in the marketplace has never been possible before because it's never been possible for everyone to have universal free access to information and ideas, and the ability to be a free actor in the economy rather than an employee of a corporation that only exists because the government gives it a corporate charter.


perfect free market capitalism would make it impossible for anyone to get rich because you wouldn't have the government giving you a leg up. i'm saying that according to economic theory, if you have a truly free market, meaning no copyrights, corporate charters, patents, limited liability, all these social contracts enforced by the government, no one would be able to accrue massive amounts of money because those laws take freedoms away from other people and give them to individual actors in the economy and artificially create wealth.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

no, that's the opposite of what i said. perfect capitalist competition in the marketplace has never been possible before because it's never been possible for everyone to have universal free access to information and ideas, and the ability to be a free actor in the economy rather than an employee of a corporation that only exists because the government gives it a corporate charter.

perfect free market capitalism would make it impossible for anyone to get rich because you wouldn't have the government giving you a leg up. i'm saying that according to economic theory, if you have a truly free market, meaning no copyrights, corporate charters, patents, limited liability, all these social contracts enforced by the government, no one would be able to accrue massive amounts of money because those laws take freedoms away from other people and give them to individual actors in the economy and artificially create wealth.

This is still wrong and still betrays a misunderstanding of human nature. Even in the abcense of copyrights/patents etc some people would still work harder and smarter than others and would make better products and services than others which would still accrue them more wealth.

[atltechdude]

Aside from that, getting rid of copyrights/patents is an absurd far left idea that is rooted in a hatred of capitalism. It basically means you think that anytime someone invests a lot of time and money to develop a good product that it should immediately be taken away from them and the wealth distributed throughout society.

[bryantm3]

patent/copyright law is not an inherent part of capitalism. and as someone who has personal experience in patent litigation i can promise you it does not work for inventors, it works for patent trolls, the people who know how to manipulate the system. it means that society is held back 20 years from life-changing technologies and medications that are not even original, just slight variations on the last thing, and the people who get the money are the people that have the resources and ability to datamine and manipulate patent law— big companies with teams of lawyers.

you don't have long-term profit with perfect competition, this is standard economic theory, it's what capitalism is based on. and i don't get how you're calling me "far left" when you want the government to be more involved in the economy than i do!