Gubernatorial Race 2018 (lawyers, buyers, marketplace)

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by BR Valentine

This is delusional. The Democrats’ donors are never going to let the party embrace anything close to socialism. And equating socialism with white supremacy, seriously?

Apparently you are still not reading my posts. That one did not equate socialism with white supremacy. It said both were disturbing.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by Forhall

Universal healthcare and affordable education is as disturbing to you as white nationalism?

That's not the socialism I'm talking about.

It's more this kind of stuff.

1. Free housing guaranteed as a right
2. Everyone guaranteed a job making at least $15 an hour (not to be confused with just raising the minimum wage to that)
3. Universal income check with no work needed
4. Tax rates of 90+% for high earners

More generally I'm opposed to the general idea many on the far left are now trumpeting that any disparity in economic outcome is inherently rooted in oppressive misdeeds by the moneyed class and has nothing to do with differences in behavior or the level of work someone has put into the world to produce goods and services of value.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by Forhall

The most "socialist" thing the furthest left person calls for is Medicare for all and student loan relief

That is incorrect.

I'm telling you guys to look at what is out there on the far left.

I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary.

There are now people way to the left of him even.

[BR Valentine]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

Apparently you are still not reading my posts. That one did not equate socialism with white supremacy. It said both were disturbing.

“It's as disturbing to me as the rise of white nationalism on the far right.” You claimed that they’re equally disturbing. Do you read your posts?

I assumed you voted for Bernie and it turns out that assumption was correct. Bernie isn’t a socialist and the people to the left of him will never set the party’s agenda.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by BR Valentine

You claimed that they’re equally disturbing. Do you read your posts?

They are both about equally disturbing to me. I was not equating them however.

Originally Posted by BR Valentine

Bernie isn’t a socialist and the people to the left of him will never set the party’s agenda.

I agree with the first statement, and I hope you are right about the second.

But a ton of people are already screaming that a Bernie type candidate is not far left enough. Even if they don't control the party, they are a problem because they are making a lot of noise and their nonsensical positions are turning off some moderates from voting for even mainstream Dems.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

That's not the socialism I'm talking about.

It's more this kind of stuff.

1. Free housing guaranteed as a right
2. Everyone guaranteed a job making at least $15 an hour (not to be confused with just raising the minimum wage to that)
3. Universal income check with no work needed
4. Tax rates of 90+% for high earners

More generally I'm opposed to the general idea many on the far left are now trumpeting that any disparity in economic outcome is inherently rooted in oppressive misdeeds by the moneyed class and has nothing to do with differences in behavior or the level of work someone has put into the world to produce goods and services of value.

I'm pretty freakin' liberal, and have mostly liberal friends, yet I don't know of anyone calling for any of the things on that list. Of course, we used to have very high tax rates on top earners, and somehow, the country flourished during that period. As the rates have come down, the country has gotten worse off....funny how that all works.

And somehow pointing out incredible disparity in the level of pay in this country comes back to "everyone should be paid the same", which is nowhere NEAR the actual discussion. What the discussion is, is that in the wealthiest country in the world, we have people who have to work multiple jobs in order to afford even the most basic of necessities because pay in this country is so damn low, all while a mediocre CEO can make tens of millions of dollars in a year. There's absolutely no excuse for it. No one is saying that people working at the Gap should be making $500,000, or that a CEO should make only $500,000. But, that's the narrative the Republicans will sell you as "what liberals want".

Originally Posted by atltechdude

Apparently you are still not reading my posts. That one did not equate socialism with white supremacy. It said both were disturbing.

You said it's "as disturbing"...that's literally equating them!

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

I'm pretty freakin' liberal, and have mostly liberal friends, yet I don't know of anyone calling for any of the things on that list.

I don't personally know these people either but they are all over social media.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

I don't personally know these people either but they are all over social media.

Yeah, you're talking about mostly extreme fringe people who exist solely in the creases of the internet. But many of the more hardcore, far-right, barely-not-white-nationalists are up front in plain view, many in office.

Originally Posted by atltechdude

But a ton of people are already screaming that a Bernie type candidate is not far left enough. Even if they don't control the party, they are a problem because they are making a lot of noise and their nonsensical positions are turning off some moderates from voting for even mainstream Dems.

So weird that I have not heard anything like this when that's the circle I hang around in.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

There is an element of truth to it.

It's not yet entered the mainstream Democratic party but the fringe/far left elements of the party are pushing us toward socialism. There is a radical embrace of Marxism on the far left right now which is quite disturbing. It is also turning off moderates from even mainstream members of the party.

I say that as a mostly liberal/left leaning person.

communism is just a different system of living that doesn't require money as a medium of exchange. like, how a normal family operates is a microcosm of 'communism'. the problem is when you get government involved in trying to socially engineer marxism, like soviet russia. the opposite is when you have the government try to socially engineer capitalism, which is what the united states adopted when it established the treasury, and since then it has been increasing layers of protections trying to keep the house of cards together. i don't think it's really that extreme or disturbing to say that there is a loss of individual freedom when the government forces capitalism on its citizens, just like when the government forces marxism on its citizens. i'm not a democrat, this is just my personal belief on the subject.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

communism is just a different system of living that doesn't require money as a medium of exchange. like, how a normal family operates is a microcosm of 'communism'. the problem is when you get government involved in trying to socially engineer marxism, like soviet russia. the opposite is when you have the government try to socially engineer capitalism, which is what the united states adopted when it established the treasury, and since then it has been increasing layers of protections trying to keep the house of cards together. i don't think it's really that extreme or disturbing to say that there is a loss of individual freedom when the government forces capitalism on its citizens, just like when the government forces marxism on its citizens. i'm not a democrat, this is just my personal belief on the subject.

Ok so here we have it. Someone to the left of the Democratic Party who is opposed to our system of capitalism.

This is what I'm talking about.