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Old 11-12-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,668 posts, read 19,917,306 times
Reputation: 21277

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
Moreover, while it's commonplace to say that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, I have to point out the obvious in that some problems are ongoing and cannot be resolved. Whenever I hear someone utter that platitude, I am tempted to ask: "But what about permanent problems? Would you support suicide as a reasonable solution to a permanent problem?" In short, I wince at how flippantly people put themselves in the position of evaluating someone else's quality of life, even as I realize that I am sometimes guilty of that very thing.
While I did refer to suicide as a "permanent solution to a temporary problem," let me clarify that. No, not all serious problems are temporary to be sure. While I don't consider suicide as an "answer" in any case, I was primarily thinking about young people and even children who commit suicide. A teen, who in the midst of some angst over a romantic break-up, commits suicide. (I had a friend on another forum whose daughter's boyfriend committed suicide after she broke it off with him.) Or another case about a year ago, in which a 10 year old boy committed suicide here locally (they suspect) because of bullying at school. This type of situation is what I had in mind; the type of situation that will truly get better if the person allows time to change things.

Even, perhaps more serious, the adult who commits suicide because of perceived financial pressure. Again, a local example, about four months ago, the mayor of a suburb here in Dallas committed suicide and killed her 18 year old daughter with her. She didn't leave a very detailed note, but it is believed she did this because of the death of her husband 2 years prior and mounting financial pressures. These are serious issues, but life has its peaks and its valleys. Most situations either will change on their own or can be overcome given some time. These are the type of things I referred to as "temporary problems." Not to make light of any of these situations, but again it's something that they might have chosen differently had they given the situation some time to resolve.

Just to be clear, I don't think suicide is always irrational. I think it is always wrong, since I don't believe we have that moral perogative. However, I do realize that is a value judgment. ( However, the OP's link, which I admit I didn't read initially, really refers to people who are neither in pain nor ill health. They have just decided on balance, that they have lived long enough.) That doesn't strike me as particularly "irrational." It's just so far outside my value system, I have difficulty understanding it.

 
Old 11-12-2010, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Puposky MN
1,083 posts, read 981,108 times
Reputation: 4844
I always thought suicide in the young was like giving the rest of the world a final F*** you before they went, leaving everyone else to deal with what they couldn't.

In the terminally ill? I could understand it. Just doing it for the heck of it? I don't see any shred of "sane" in that.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Gettysburg, PA
1,565 posts, read 1,511,118 times
Reputation: 2755
Quote:
Originally Posted by unseengundam View Post
Suicide is almost always associated with mental health issues and bad circumstances in life leading to it. I have been recently debating weather a mentally stable person can use reasons/facts to determine they should commit suicide?

I personally think people could have nothing wrong with them but end up deciding suicide is a good a choice as any in life. The basic is idea is a person weighs the Pros and Cons of continuing to live life. If the Cons out weighs the Pros, they person can accurately make the judgement it isn't worth living any more. Here is good site with more detailed info: Rational Suicide.

What do you guys think of this topic?
I am whole-heartedly for rational suicide. It is almost always the case where sometimes people's lives hit a low point and almost all the time it will get better. However, there are some instances where this is just not true be it health conditions or some other situation. Everyone should have the means to in a medically "safe" environment end their life (safe being a kind of euphenism here: so often when people try to commit suicide they end up in tragic situations where they get the job partially done).

I really don't understand the argument against this form of suicide either. Of course careful measures have to be taken to ensure that the person is not in a state of depression. Yet beyond that, I cannot think of anything else. I had always thought the most significant argument was that it was "wrong" in some way (I'm imagining this would be in reference to religious beliefs) and to that argument I would appeal to the need for the separation of church and state; in no way should laws be based on one's religious beliefs.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,311,199 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by unseengundam View Post
Suicide is almost always associated with mental health issues and bad circumstances in life leading to it. I have been recently debating weather a mentally stable person can use reasons/facts to determine they should commit suicide?

I personally think people could have nothing wrong with them but end up deciding suicide is a good a choice as any in life. The basic is idea is a person weighs the Pros and Cons of continuing to live life. If the Cons out weighs the Pros, they person can accurately make the judgement it isn't worth living any more. Here is good site with more detailed info: Rational Suicide.

What do you guys think of this topic?
The only rational reasoning for suicide, for me, would be if I had a terminal illness, and I was sure to die.

I'd simply take a carbon monoxide tank, hook up a air mask to it, and start breathing in. Painless death, and it'd be better than suffering through bone cancer.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Murphy, TX
635 posts, read 2,498,127 times
Reputation: 421
Here is interesting thought, about allow people who are considering rational suicide talk to psychological counselor to see if they any metal or emotional issues. If there aren't any such issues, the person should be cleared for right to commit suicide. That would be one way to make sure a person isn't making too hasty decision.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Murphy, TX
635 posts, read 2,498,127 times
Reputation: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by light_shimmer View Post
I always thought suicide in the young was like giving the rest of the world a final F*** you before they went, leaving everyone else to deal with what they couldn't.
I am absolute agree about these case people flipping off the rest of world. Often time people tend to see world as too much of an unfair / miserable place. And truth be told life is unfair and can be quite miserable often.

Personally I do think even for young people it can be debatable if they can rationally commit suicide. Usually young people irrationally / hastily decide on suicide to due to emotional pain.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 06:23 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,057,040 times
Reputation: 14878
Quote:
Originally Posted by unseengundam View Post
I have been recently debating weather a mentally stable person can use reasons/facts to determine they should commit suicide?
If that is the criteria what's to question?
 
Old 11-12-2010, 06:44 PM
 
Location: In a state of denial
1,289 posts, read 2,582,255 times
Reputation: 942
Having had several "terminal" and painful illnesses I can say that I have considered suicide, but am now glad I did not make that choice. I wasn't supposed to live, but did anyway. People can be on the brink and suffer for years only to get better by some miracle. All I can say is that I'm glad I was too sick to do anything about it at the time I was considering it because life is wonderful now. Things can change, life is not static. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 07:06 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,212,693 times
Reputation: 3933
Quote:
Originally Posted by unseengundam View Post
Suicide is almost always associated with mental health issues and bad circumstances in life leading to it. I have been recently debating weather a mentally stable person can use reasons/facts to determine they should commit suicide?

I personally think people could have nothing wrong with them but end up deciding suicide is a good a choice as any in life. The basic is idea is a person weighs the Pros and Cons of continuing to live life. If the Cons out weighs the Pros, they person can accurately make the judgement it isn't worth living any more. Here is good site with more detailed info: Rational Suicide.

What do you guys think of this topic?
Yes, someone can reasonably and logically choose to commit suicide, without being mentally ill. If I ever contract a terminal illness it is very likely that I'll choose when I want to die, rather than stick my family with a lot of bills and a long depressing illness. Hey it's my life, and I should be allowed to end it how and when I choose.
 
Old 11-12-2010, 08:06 PM
 
18,856 posts, read 30,455,105 times
Reputation: 25990
It reminds me of my favorite scene in Solient Green, where the Father went to the Euthanasia Place, and is laying in the bed, watching the scene of fields of flowers, telling his son, "that is how it used to be". I actually am in favor of euthanasia, and think that in the next 40 years that this will be the most critical political issue that will blow abortion out of the water. No one will even discuss Roe v. Wade any longer, as it will be a moot point, when baby boomers hit older ages, and want to terminate their lives. Living into your 90's-100's is not pretty for some. And I don't doubt for a minute that many boomers will want to have the "freedom to choose" if they want to continue or not. Especially those with diagnosis of Alzihiemers, Terminal Cancer, or other diseases. I think that this will soon be the political hot potato of our times...As for myself, I would prefer to be in a nice center, in a warm comfy bed, watching a big screen with animals, and flowers with a nice IV drip than die a slow death after a stroke, being paralyzed, and peeing on myself...
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