gun control (ideologies, Iraq, Israel, radical)

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by jdavid93225

"The tyrannical government usually cannot be overthrown without the forceful use of arms."

And my answer still is that Ghandi did just that.
But maybe you're of the opinion that the British Empire is not a tyrannical government?
After all, the British claimed to be civilised.

"There is also such a thing as friendly fire from small arms."

Have you ever tried to give cover (using friendly fire) with a machine gun or submachinegun with friendlies in front of you before the approaching enemy?
All machineguns (including submachine guns) are designed for offence and not defence.

In the case of individual firearms ownership, being properly armed provides an excellent defense against predatory attacks by the criminal element, because they don't want to be confronted by a potential victim that is armed.

This follows the same line of 'logic' that because crime is only committed by the living, we should kill all the living if we want to get rid of crime.

I simply said that since the OP referred to the Constitution, and the poster indicated that he lives in the U.S., it's only logical to make the connection that he was referring to the U.S. Constitution.

Then he should've changed the title of the thread. The title has to be a short synopsis
of the discussion he wanted to start.

If he didn't intend to refer to the U.S. Constitution, I believe he would have said so.

This is not necessarily so.
Anywayz, if he only wanted to restrict gun control to the US he should've been more clear about it in the title.
Since he did not I can only assume that he didn't.

Not all Americans, myself included, hold the belief that a first strike is a defensive maneuver.

Okay maybe I should've stated that only Americans who love American Football believe that a 1st strike qualifies as a defensive manoeuvre.

Not all Americans agree with what the American Government has done abroad. In fact, I am sure that if you asked 10 Americans their opinion on this topic, you would get at least 10 different opinions.

Yet after 9/11 most Americans agreed that invading Iraq was a good idea (because of the presumption that Iraq had WMDs).

At last we agree on something.

I'll bet you'll disagree with the reason; I don't wanna be an American because I view Americans as the most conformist people in the world.
And the majority of Americans is ignorant about how the world works outside the US.
In short: I generally find Americans the most uninformed people of the world, but I guess I can't blame them because the quality of American journalism isn't what it once was.
With corporate news like CNN, Fox etc, I find it hard to believe that the US still has an independent press.
It seems that journalists like Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein are a dying breed in America.
Or it could just be me since I don't read any newspapers (except the ones I find abandoned in the public transport).

[TonyT]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Ya ask me a question and when I answer ya accuse me of going off topic?

It was a rhetorical question. No response was required from you as it was clearly established that the foundation of your point was in error. I may have been accusing you of something but going off topic wasn't it.

Originally Posted by TrickyD

LoL as if your answers are unpredictable to me.

If my answers were so predictable then it should have been easy to come up with something to counter what I said. But you didn't.

Originally Posted by TrickyD

I'm not trying anything, it's all history.
That you wish to deny it ain't my problem.

The only thing that I deny is your premise that the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was put into place for the purpose of oppressing minorities. As there is no factual basis for your claim you cannot say that "it's all history", except perhaps in your personal version of U.S. history.

Originally Posted by TrickyD

I'm not a patriot like you and most Americans.

You seem quite proud of your Dutch citizenship, support Dutch laws, imply that Dutch laws make more sense then American ones, and have stated elsewhere that Americans could take lessons from the Dutch when it comes to diplomacy, etc. If you're not a patriot, then what are you, just a paid spokesman for all things Dutch?

Originally Posted by TrickyD

You confuse me with yourself.
Besidez, in The Netherlands our government exists out of a coalition government so we never truly get what we really want, which means that the biggest party has to make compromises with other parties in order to form a government. So we always criticize every decision.

I'm not confused at all. You live in a country where it is accepted that certain personal liberties should be restricted by the government for the greater good. I live in a country where, while it appears that freedom is being eroded, I am still a freer person then you will ever be. I'm happy where I am and you are seemingly happy where you are. Who could ask for anything more?

Originally Posted by TrickyD

it must suck to be you right now, cause Obama is your president.

This assumes facts not in evidence. I have never stated any political affiliation on this forum nor commented on Obama in any way, shape, or form with regard to this topic or any other as far as I can recall. My politics are a personal issue therefore not something I tend to discuss in a format such as this.

Originally Posted by TrickyD

Now say it like ya mean it.

I did mean it. It is always a pleasure for me to point out your penchant for circular arguments, going off on tangents, misstating historical facts, and your overall inability to actually debate. Much like a cat toying with a mouse, it's amusing for awhile but then it gets boring. Which is the point where I find myself now with both the topic and you...bored.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by TonyT

If my answers were so predictable then it should have been easy to come up with something to counter what I said. But you didn't.

because I'm used to repeat myself.
Ask Greatday cause with him I only keep going around in circles.
Besidez, I'm not here to please you.
If my answers don't satisfy you then you're just out of luck.

If you're not a patriot, then what are you, just a paid spokesman for all things Dutch?

Just a Dutch guy who speaks his opnion.
Talk to me about Dutch history and you'll find out how 'patriotic' I am.

As there is no factual basis for your claim you cannot say that "it's all history", except perhaps in your personal version of U.S. history.

LoL I quoted my source.
Go take it up with him if you're still in denial.

I have never stated any political affiliation on this forum nor commented on Obama in any way, shape, or form with regard to this topic or any other as far as I can recall.

Sometimes the things ya don't talk about give more info than the things ya do talk about.

It is always a pleasure for me to point out your penchant for circular arguments, going off on tangents, misstating historical facts, and your overall inability to actually debate. Much like a cat toying with a mouse, it's amusing for awhile but then it gets boring. Which is the point where I find myself now with both the topic and you...bored.

AAWWww, big putty cat huwd mah feelings.
You assume I care.

[nickeldude]

Man tony, you are getting taken for a ride in this thread. Did you miss the "don't feed the trolls" sign on the way in?

[Tin Knocker]

Originally Posted by rlchurch

They shouldn't nor are they as far as I can tell. No one, even in the District of Columbia, is restricting hunting rifles or shotguns.

Starting to look like the realization that DC is incapable of legislating itself within the limitations of our constitution is sinking in. The Senate has already decided your gun ban, the current one, is unacceptable, hopefully the house will follow suit. Maybe if you dont like or are afraid of the level of liberty & freedom in America you can go somewhere more to your liking. I bet Tricky D would put you up in Holland for awhile. They have places you can go smoke things that will let you think you are still a free man.

Senate Repeals D.C. Gun Ban By Large Vote
-- But the fight in the House is just beginning

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

Monday, March 2, 2009


By a resounding vote of 62 to 36 last week, the U.S. Senate has approved
an amendment, offered by Senator John Ensign of Nevada, to repeal the
D.C. gun ban.

Congratulations!

But the battle is not over.

This week, the House will take up the D.C. voting legislation. And
anti-gun Speaker Nancy Pelosi is angling to impose a "gag rule" on the
House, so that D.C. gets its unconstitutional representative, while
continuing its draconian anti-gun laws (like microstamping).

So here's the deal: The House will be asked to consider a "rule" which
establishes the time for debate and provides for which amendments may be
considered -- and which may not.

It is expected that the Pelosi rule will seek to deny the House any vote
on the D.C. gun ban and thereby strip the repeal of the ban from the
House bill.

So what we are asking you to do is to write and/or call your congressman
and demand that he oppose any rule that strips the D.C. gun ban repeal
from the D.C. voting bill.

Just to remind you of how draconian the D.C. gun law is:

* Following the Supreme Court's decision in Heller declaring the law to
be unconstitutional, D.C. made a few cosmetic changes which will, as a
practical matter, allow it to continue to deny its citizens the right to
keep and bear arms.

* Then, the City Council passed a whole series of new anti-gun measures.
These include a requirement that most guns used for self-defense
"microstamp" fired casings in two places with a "unique serial number."


Aside from being ineffectual with respect to stolen guns or crimes where
the brass has not been left behind, this microstamping provision is
intended to make guns so expensive that they won't be available anywhere
-- including your state.

ACTION: Write your Representative and urge him or her in the strongest
terms to oppose any rule which will strip the gun ban repeal from the
D.C. voting bill.

You can go to the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Representative the
pre-written e-mail message below.

You can also call him or her toll-free at 1-877-762-8762.

[Tin Knocker]

Just a Dutch guy who speaks his opnion.
Talk to me about Dutch history and you'll find out how 'patriotic' I am.

Yes, a man (I use the term loosly) who is proud of his heritage in a country that dragged his family from their homes & forced them to relocate. While your opinions expressed here simply expose ignorance about a subject you have no exposure to or reasonable expectation to not be ignorant about, your defense of a system you only adhere to because theres nothing you can do about it its very telling.

Had the US not entered WW2 I can easily see you espousing the virtue of Hiltlers regime.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Tin Knocker

Yes, a man (I use the term loosly) who is proud of his heritage in a country that dragged his family from their homes & forced them to relocate.

You truly have absolutely no idea what you're talkin' about do ya?

Had the US not entered WW2 I can easily see you espousing the virtue of Hiltlers regime.

LoL, tell me, what's the difference between Nazi Germany in WWII and America?
I've read in a recent article* that your CIA has destroyed videotapes were people were being tortured by Americans.

* CIA destroyed 92 torture videos, attorney claims
Monday 02 March 2009

The CIA has destroyed 92 controversial interrogation videos featuring al Qaeda suspects undergoing waterboarding, a US attorney said in a letter addressed to a New York judge. The tapes were allegedly destroyed in 2005.
Source:France 24 | CIA destroyed 92 torture videos, attorney claims | France 24

[Tin Knocker]

LoL, tell me, what's the difference between Nazi Germany in WWII and America?

Ask the Jews. Ask your Monarch. Read a bit & get back to me.

LoL, tell me, what's the difference between Nazi Germany in WWII and America?
I've read in a recent article* that your CIA has destroyed videotapes were people were being tortured by Americans.

Quote:
* CIA destroyed 92 torture videos, attorney claims
Monday 02 March 2009

The CIA has destroyed 92 controversial interrogation videos featuring al Qaeda suspects undergoing waterboarding, a US attorney said in a letter addressed to a New York judge. The tapes were allegedly destroyed in 2005.
Source:France 24 | CIA destroyed 92 torture videos, attorney claims | France 24

The only shame is they need to cover it up. Besides waterboarding is borderline torture anyway. We should cut off their heads & fill their bodies with pig blood & make Al Jazeera air it. They are an admitted violent terrorist group, what we do to them & what Hitler did to INNOCENTS arent the same. For you to equate them just reinforces my opinion that you are addle brained at best.

You truly have absolutely no idea what you're talkin' about do ya?

Only that you stated that your family had been moved to Holland by the Dutch against their will. I wont be surprised if its a lie, but either way it shows that you are a great serf, loyal to whoever happens to have you under their thumb.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Tin Knocker

Ask the Jews. Ask your Monarch. Read a bit & get back to me.

According to the Gaza problem the Jews in Israel wouldn't know the difference either.

Besides waterboarding is borderline torture anyway.

Right and people can't die from being 'borderline' tortured.
FYI your answer implies that according to you there is no difference between the Nazis and Americans because both were just following orders.
There still are ex-Nazis who, like you, are convinced they did nothing wrong because they just followed their government's orders (the fact that they helped to exterminate 1000s of Jews is irrelevant to them).

Only that you stated that your family had been moved to Holland by the Dutch against their will.

The Dutch government actually saved my family because they are Christians.
Staying there would've meant that they would be slaughtered by the Indonesians.
The only thing is that the Dutch government used a lie to trick us to come to Holland, but after a few decades they apologised to us for lying.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

You truly have absolutely no idea what you're talkin' about do ya?

Heck - you don't know what YOU are talking about - that's for sure