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I share your sentiment. It is important to enforce our immigration laws. Immigration can affect our economy and in other areas.
However, I do not forget that many of them are people that simply want to have a better life. Many of them are desperate. Our ancestors moved here for the same reason and other reasons too.
Some people seem to reflect some ulterior motive when they call them criminals as if they came here to kill and rob. Granted, there are the criminal elements the group as in any group I must make that clear.
Some may claim that our ancestors came here legally. It is true many of them did. However, others may not have much hope on the legal route and they desperate and do whatever they can to survive. I am not saying just let them come in. We have to look for our national interests first.
Others talk about securing our borders. How? Build a great wall all around us with guard at every ten feet? At what cost if that is the decision? They talk as if it a matter of snapping the fingers and look 'it's done!'.
Also, some demand as if to forget other national issues. Ask, someone else that thinks education is the most important, or that national defense is, or that child or spousal abuse is, etc. They all want the governemnt to spend money on their causes. There is only enough money in the pot, take care.
My ancestors did not expect handouts. They didn't expect bilingual education teachers, food stamps, paid medical care when they had babies on American soil, access to subsidized housing, interpreters or anything else from American citizens.
They came here legally. They were inspected for infectious disease and deported if found with such diseases. They knew they had to learn English, adopt to American society, avoid being a public charge and obey American laws. They also knew if they did not they would be deported. They did not bring their elderly relatives over and demand social security payments for them. They did not bring disabled family members and demand social security disability payments for them.
Why should we be sympathic people who refuse to do the same today? If you want a better life well so what? Who doesn't want a better life? Why should the American taxpayer be asked to subsidize your desire for a better life?
Most illegal aliens are criminals who break multiple laws. They come here without permission in violation of our laws. Once here they forge documents so they can work, often without paying taxes. They drive without licenses or insurance, skip out on medical bills, refuse to learn English and whine that Americans won't let them skip the line permanently, learn Spanish or give their equally illegal children subsidized college education.
Enough already.
The illegal migrants should go home. We don't need them here. In the past we've slammed the door shut when necessary to protect American jobs and allow immigrants to assimilate. It's been open since 1965. We need to shut it and shut it firmly. Just because people want something does not obligate the American taxpayer to provide it for them. They need to fix up their own damned countries rather than coming here without permission and to detriment of the American public.
Punish the employers. Require one parent to be a legal citizen for any baby to be an American. Deny illegal migrants the right to public schooling, medical care and food stamps. Provide no benefit for childbearing here. In short do what most civilized nations do and you will finally see them leave.
No ill intent on the gender. That is the problem with me. I generally do not check who wrote a message. I just reply to the message. Second, even if I check chicagonut does not give an indication of gender. By the way, I was born in Chicago but left when I was about 6. I have great memories from those times.
As far as how you rank immigration on the list I was talking in general terms. Even if I made the mistake by saying you rank it higher, the point I was making remains the same in what I was talking about, take care.
No ill intent taken. I have often made that same mistake myself about gender. Just clearing it up for you that I am a female. My handle actually hasn't anything to do with the city of Chicago itself either.
Illegal immigration would not be anywhere near my top 10, let alone top 5, list of political issues. Top 25, perhaps. But my solutions to the issue don't have anything to do with punishing folks who come here to make a better life for themselves and their families.
To each his own.
The problem though is that they are breaking the law and they are making life harder for Americans. I put the welfare of the citizens of this country above the welfare of foreingers especially those here illegally. We allow 1.5 million legal immigrants in here annually to make a better life for themselves and their families and that is all we can accomodate before it negatively impacts the citizens of this country.
My ancestors did not expect handouts. They didn't expect bilingual education teachers, food stamps, paid medical care when they had babies on American soil, access to subsidized housing, interpreters or anything else from American citizens.
They came here legally. They were inspected for infectious disease and deported if found with such diseases. They knew they had to learn English, adopt to American society, avoid being a public charge and obey American laws. They also knew if they did not they would be deported. They did not bring their elderly relatives over and demand social security payments for them. They did not bring disabled family members and demand social security disability payments for them.
Why should we be sympathic people who refuse to do the same today? If you want a better life well so what? Who doesn't want a better life? Why should the American taxpayer be asked to subsidize your desire for a better life?
Most illegal aliens are criminals who break multiple laws. They come here without permission in violation of our laws. Once here they forge documents so they can work, often without paying taxes. They drive without licenses or insurance, skip out on medical bills, refuse to learn English and whine that Americans won't let them skip the line permanently, learn Spanish or give their equally illegal children subsidized college education.
Enough already.
The illegal migrants should go home. We don't need them here. In the past we've slammed the door shut when necessary to protect American jobs and allow immigrants to assimilate. It's been open since 1965. We need to shut it and shut it firmly. Just because people want something does not obligate the American taxpayer to provide it for them. They need to fix up their own damned countries rather than coming here without permission and to detriment of the American public.
Punish the employers. Require one parent to be a legal citizen for any baby to be an American. Deny illegal migrants the right to public schooling, medical care and food stamps. Provide no benefit for childbearing here. In short do what most civilized nations do and you will finally see them leave.
Thanks for the input. I do not agree with most immigrants being being criminals. We will agree to disagree with that.
Also, as I read and observe human nature, it is so much easier to be hard on people when we have it nice.
I do not know if you made your comments as to reply to something I never said. Example: I never said that 'because people want something' it obligates the American taxpayer to provide it for them, correct? Your comment is irrelevant to what I said.
Your harsh statements toward them shows not care for human care. I simply stated a caring statement towards other people that do not have it as good as we do. I did not say let them come in, correct? So again your comment is irrelevant to what I wrote. I must say I thought it humorous as I imagined you typing this, red fiery eyes, locked jaw, and hopefully not breaking the key pad. I am with you on some of the points but you reply in a way that has nothing to do with what I wrote. Having sympathy for other people with less means than I have does not entitled them to the same things we have by just crossing the border.
I have written we enforce our laws, correct? Again, your comments are irrelevant to what I wrote. Did I ever write we need to give public schooling or those other things you mentioned? No, so again, your ranting was irrelevant to what I wrote. Why not directed somewhere else and maybe bring up to surfce the possible ulterior motive behind your message?
Now, I do agree with you in the areas of punishing those that give them jobs. The day they get punished hard they will stop hiring them, I do also agree that coming to this country to have a baby to get citizenship should not be allowed, Take care.
No ill intent taken. I have often made that same mistake myself about gender. Just clearing it up for you that I am a female. My handle actually hasn't anything to do with the city of Chicago itself either.
Thanks, I do like the chicagonut name. I should have called my self the elpasonut, lol.
Thanks for the input. I do not agree with most immigrants being being criminals. We will agree to disagree with that.
Also, as I read and observe human nature, it is so much easier to be hard on people when we have it nice.
I do not know if you made your comments as to reply to something I never said. Example: I never said that 'because people want something' it obligates the American taxpayer to provide it for them, correct? Your comment is irrelevant to what I said.
Your harsh statements toward them shows not care for human care. I simply stated a caring statement towards other people that do not have it as good as we do. I did not say let them come in, correct? So again your comment is irrelevant to what I wrote. I must say I thought it humorous as I imagined you typing this, red fiery eyes, locked jaw, and hopefully not breaking the key pad. I am with you on some of the points but you reply in a way that has nothing to do with what I wrote. Having sympathy for other people with less means than I have does not entitled them to the same things we have by just crossing the border.
I have written we enforce our laws, correct? Again, your comments are irrelevant to what I wrote. Did I ever write we need to give public schooling or those other things you mentioned? No, so again, your ranting was irrelevant to what I wrote. Why not directed somewhere else and maybe bring up to surfce the possible ulterior motive behind your message?
Now, I do agree with you in the areas of punishing those that give them jobs. The day they get punished hard they will stop hiring them, I do also agree that coming to this country to have a baby to get citizenship should not be allowed, Take care.
I simply pointed out the differences between today's illegals and yesterday's legal migrants. You drew a parallel that was neither apt nor appropriate.
You wrote they weren't criminals. The fact is that most of them are. As I pointed out they forge documents, drive without licenses or insurance, largely fail to pay taxes and get social services they are not entitled to from the American taxpayer. If you have no problem then pass a special illegal migrant tax and pay it. I would prefer not to subsidize anyone's immigration let alone those who do so illegally.
The notion that wanting our laws enforced makes me some sort of ranting lunatic is laughable. If they want my sympathy let them start by obeying my laws and respecting my society.
I simply pointed out the differences between today's illegals and yesterday's legal migrants. You drew a parallel that was neither apt nor appropriate.
You wrote they weren't criminals. The fact is that most of them are. As I pointed out they forge documents, drive without licenses or insurance, largely fail to pay taxes and get social services they are not entitled to from the American taxpayer. If you have no problem then pass a special illegal migrant tax and pay it. I would prefer not to subsidize anyone's immigration let alone those who do so illegally.
The notion that wanting our laws enforced makes me some sort of ranting lunatic is laughable. If they want my sympathy let them start by obeying my laws and respecting my society.
Ok, I got the feeling we are getting closer to each other on the issue. Where I still disagree is that most of them are criminals. If you are saying this in the sense that they crossed the border illegaly you are technically correct. I am referring that most may not be in the sense they are some type of criminals that only come here to rob, pillage, commint murder, etc. I do not beleive the great majority are that way.
I did not catch how the paralle was not apt and appropriate. You need to clarify that one for me.
I do agree that in order to stop them is by enforcing laws. When I went to get my drivers license I needed to have a birth certificate. Now it has become difficult to make someone do that. That is what I mean. If those people want to try it and they are allowed to do so and get away with hit, I do not blame them. They try knowing that all they can get is a no and then go back home. It us up to us to stop that. I live in a border town and I have dealt with many of them. Many are good people desperate and willing to even risk their lives to make money for their families and that is what I mean but at least showing a more sympathetic rhetoric.
My mom used to have a little convenience store close to the border. Many used to come to her store and ask for something to eat. Sorry to say it but I imagine you screaming at them with no compassion to get back to their home. My mom did not do that. She first sat them down, gave them a meal and then told them they needed to go back to their homes of origin. She told them they expect a life of suffering and hardship and being away from their loved ones. She had a couple of big pots of food because everyday someone came to her store to ask for help and where to go. She never told them where to go. She fed them a meal and then told them where to go back to Mexico. To me that is the difference between the way she talked about them and you.
Your closing statement is appropriate. However, as wrote it is easier to make those claims when you are not in dired situations. It is easy to expect law compliance. However, WE as a nation did not respect the natives in this country. Our history has many examples of breaking laws and treaties all over the world. That is part of our nature as humans, a sad and ugly type I must say.
To me for us as a nation to scream and demand respect for our laws does not match our history. That is why even though I do espouse respect for laws I do not do so as we are holier than thou, take care.
Ok, I got the feeling we are getting closer to each other on the issue. Where I still disagree is that most of them are criminals. If you are saying this in the sense that they crossed the border illegaly you are technically correct. I am referring that most may not be in the sense they are some type of criminals that only come here to rob, pillage, commint murder, etc. I do not beleive the great majority are that way.
I did not catch how the paralle was not apt and appropriate. You need to clarify that one for me.
I do agree that in order to stop them is by enforcing laws. When I went to get my drivers license I needed to have a birth certificate. Now it has become difficult to make someone do that. That is what I mean. If those people want to try it and they are allowed to do so and get away with hit, I do not blame them. They try knowing that all they can get is a no and then go back home. It us up to us to stop that. I live in a border town and I have dealt with many of them. Many are good people desperate and willing to even risk their lives to make money for their families and that is what I mean but at least showing a more sympathetic rhetoric.
My mom used to have a little convenience store close to the border. Many used to come to her store and ask for something to eat. Sorry to say it but I imagine you screaming at them with no compassion to get back to their home. My mom did not do that. She first sat them down, gave them a meal and then told them they needed to go back to their homes of origin. She told them they expect a life of suffering and hardship and being away from their loved ones. She had a couple of big pots of food because everyday someone came to her store to ask for help and where to go. She never told them where to go. She fed them a meal and then told them where to go back to Mexico. To me that is the difference between the way she talked about them and you.
Your closing statement is appropriate. However, as wrote it is easier to make those claims when you are not in dired situations. It is easy to expect law compliance. However, WE as a nation did not respect the natives in this country. Our history has many examples of breaking laws and treaties all over the world. That is part of our nature as humans, a sad and ugly type I must say.
To me for us as a nation to scream and demand respect for our laws does not match our history. That is why even though I do espouse respect for laws I do not do so as we are holier than thou, take care.
There is a huge difference between giving a poor person a meal and turning over your home to them and their entire family. Many Americans aren't able to provide for their own and one of the reasons is because illegal aliens have taken their jobs and jacked up their taxes in the way of their social costs. Don't you think your compassion is a little misplaced?
I reiterate that the reason we have quotas for immigration is because anything above those numbers negatively impacts our own citizens. Should we let our own suffer so we can take in the needy of the world? That would be committing national suicide and killing the goose that laid the golden egg so to speak.
As for our past history, it gets tiresome when someone tries to justify illegal immigration based on that. What country isn't without its dark side in history? Does that mean they have no right to immigration laws then?
I am not saying that you have said any of these things but these questions have to arise based on your views on illegal immigration. They are valid questions not putting words in your mouth.
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,432,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo
However, I do not forget that many of them are people that simply want to have a better life. Many of them are desperate. Our ancestors moved here for the same reason and other reasons too.
Those illegals that you mentioned who "only want a better life", are a very small percentage and they also use forged, fake or stolen documents, SS #'s and ID's in order work.
But still you feel that just because they want a "better life", justifies their breaking of Laws, in order to get that "better life".
It's not always "what they want", but how they go about getting what they want, is what labels them as criminals.
BTW, What someones anscestors did is irrelevant and plays not part in this issue.
Last edited by mkfarnam; 03-08-2011 at 12:16 AM..
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