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My youngest son married early and it is to a Spanish speaking woman...He is very musical and picking up a second language is a pleasure to him. He can converse with his wife in Spanish as well as English..Do I get irritated at hearing rapid Spanish while she is on the phone with her relatives? Yes a bit...it's a different culture and they seem to laugh a lot...I kind of feel left out....A few days ago we had a house party...it started out with a couple of Spanish speaking guests...By mid evening the place was filled with Chileans....Young people from good families...
They love to sing...dance and drink...boy could they drink...I was submerged in relentless waves of Spanish..Oddly some of them spoke perfect English and the rest of them had a fairly good command of English....Later my daughter in law commented that Chileans do not consider themselves a "Latin"country like the rest of south America and Mexico...The pride themselves as being more European due to their original settlers...as for Mexico...they really do not like being mistaken for Mexicans...kind of like Russians get irritated when they are mistaken for Poles.
No- I don't want to speak Spanish...it's better that the new comers learn OUR language. After all they have come here and we have NOT gone there. I have been invited to visit Chile..for as long as I want- then - I may learn to speak some Spanish because it will be a must...long as I am on my own turf...they had better communicate in English- after all they have entered my home land...and the host is to be respected.
We have Chilean friends down in Colorado Springs, the wife is married to an Anglo and the parents fly from Chile twice a year. I swear they look and act exactly like my family from Mexico, even their culture is very similar and there were no problems at a party with Anglos, Mexicans, Chileans, Colombians and Peruvians not 1 attitude of European Blood Superiority.
I don't think anyone likes to be mistaken for another county or heritage...I don't why people in this forum like to put the wedge between Latin Americans and Mexicans... to me it is a complete MYTH.
I'll add there are a lot of white anglo people from CO, AZ and CA speaking Spanish (Chilean parents only know Spanish) at these parties...I think we are getting along quite well.
I am curious to know which countries? & which services these English speakers took up residency?
I lived in Eastern Europe, but I don't think that's central to my argument. I guess the point I was trying to make is that many immigrants coming here (let's disregard illegals for now; that's another issue which should certainly be debated) are in a similar situation to the one I was in. They might have limited language skills, but they have an opportunity to make a better living than at home. They frequently take on crappy jobs many Americans don't want to do (not the case with most American expats, at least in my experience). That chance for people to come here and make a better life for themselves is something which we as Americans can justifiably be proud of.
But as much as it might annoy some of us to hear Spanish being spoken all around us while in our home country, I don't know if it's realistic to expect everybody "off the boat" to communicate well in English. Clearly, it's in the immigrants' best interest to become as fluent as possible, but sadly, many choose to remain in linguistic ghettos.
Sometimes as a thought experiment I like to imagine what it would be like if I could go, say, to Mongolia and make $100/hr shoveling dirt. I would jump at the chance! But would I assimilate well with the locals or stick with the other Americans? Would my language skills improve, or would I only learn the minimum to get by? Would Mongolians feel uncomfortable around me? Resent me? Try to get to know me? I really don't know.
But I certainly don't think someone's a racist because they don't want to speak Spanish. What do you think?
there are millons of GOOD (and very good) jobs here requiring english just like that one. And some portuguese. And some french or german. Never heard anyone complaining about the existence of those jobs (wtf??). So, i dont understand how a normal job-add can get you so worked up.
This thread seems to be getting clearer and clearer as pages go by: its as simple as bigotry and xenophobia.
Just a bunch of people being xenophobs, thinking less of people of other countries, believing they are superior, and trying to make excuses for it.
Thats the only explanation as to why a NORMAL job add can get everybody so MAD.
You are missing the point. English is a global language used for international communication. Like it or not Spanish is not. People in China are learning English not because they have to but because they want to. They know it will increase their chances of success. They are not learning Spanish. We Americans are being told to learn Spanish not increase our chances of success internationally but for one primary reason: to cater to lazy foreign invaders who have broken our laws and refused to learn our language.
Objection to that kind of arrogance is not bigotry no matter how much the Latino lobby likes to pretend otherwise.
The only xenophobia is that of illegals. They hold Americans in great contempt. They refuse to make any sort of accommodations to our nation even when they move here voluntarily. We are not human beings to them. We are contemptible beings who exist for one reason and one reason only: to do what we can to make their lives easier even when it makes our lives harder.
I can definitely appreciate frustrations people have when government offices, schools, etc., have to have language accommodations for every ethnic group that comes here. I once saw a teacher purchasing dictionaries in about eight different languages for students to use while doing exams at a high school, and I wondered if too much "hand-holding" would be counterproductive to these kids' integration (not to mention the added expense).
But like the poster who saw the lack of interest in learning Spanish among English-speakers in Puerto Rico, I lived abroad and saw the same thing there. Many if not most English speakers thought it was outrageous that all shops, restaurants, and even government agencies didn't accommodate them by speaking English. They learned how to say "hello" and "beer", and left it at that ... for years. They only went to English-speaking venues and hung out with other English speakers. If they had difficult experiences being understood, they sometimes broke down and ended up going home. (A very nice American I knew tearfully resolved to eschew the romanticism of expat life when she couldn't be understood ordering "Cheddar Cheese" in the local lingo). Hopefully, they weren't the same types who bellow, "If they come to America they should speak English!" because that would be hypocritical. And no one likes to be hypocritical.
It would be hypocritical if these American English speakers refused to learn Spanish while living in Puerto Rico and yet they expected non-English speakers to assimilate linguistically in our country. I don't know of any of those types of hypocrites, however. As for me, I am not a hypocrite. If I were to move to a foreign country I would not only learn their language but it would be my primary language of usage out in public.
I lived in Eastern Europe, but I don't think that's central to my argument. I guess the point I was trying to make is that many immigrants coming here (let's disregard illegals for now; that's another issue which should certainly be debated) are in a similar situation to the one I was in. They might have limited language skills, but they have an opportunity to make a better living than at home. They frequently take on crappy jobs many Americans don't want to do (not the case with most American expats, at least in my experience). That chance for people to come here and make a better life for themselves is something which we as Americans can justifiably be proud of.
But as much as it might annoy some of us to hear Spanish being spoken all around us while in our home country, I don't know if it's realistic to expect everybody "off the boat" to communicate well in English. Clearly, it's in the immigrants' best interest to become as fluent as possible, but sadly, many choose to remain in linguistic ghettos.
Sometimes as a thought experiment I like to imagine what it would be like if I could go, say, to Mongolia and make $100/hr shoveling dirt. I would jump at the chance! But would I assimilate well with the locals or stick with the other Americans? Would my language skills improve, or would I only learn the minimum to get by? Would Mongolians feel uncomfortable around me? Resent me? Try to get to know me? I really don't know.
But I certainly don't think someone's a racist because they don't want to speak Spanish. What do you think?
You do agree however that no one should enter any country illegally to make a better life for themselves, don't you? It is a myth that there are jobs that illegal immigrants are doing in this country that Americans or legal immigrants won't do.
Most of the Spanish I hear being spoken are from those who do know how to speak English because I have heard them switch to English when they had to. So these people are not just "fresh off the boat". They just seem to have an adversity to speaking English and that is a non-assimilatlon factor to me and I find it rude in many instances.
There is no language requirement to immigrate legally to the United States (or for a U.S. citizen returning to the U.S.). A Legal Permanent Resident is not required to naturalize to U.S. citizenship. As long as someone can reasonably follow the naturalization interview, transcribe a spoken sentence into English, and read an offered English sentence out loud (when waivers of that requirement can start as low as 50 years old), that is the first and only official checkpoint an immigrant will encounter to know English.
I lived in Eastern Europe, but I don't think that's central to my argument. I guess the point I was trying to make is that many immigrants coming here (let's disregard illegals for now; that's another issue which should certainly be debated) are in a similar situation to the one I was in. They might have limited language skills, but they have an opportunity to make a better living than at home. They frequently take on crappy jobs many Americans don't want to do (not the case with most American expats, at least in my experience). That chance for people to come here and make a better life for themselves is something which we as Americans can justifiably be proud of.
But as much as it might annoy some of us to hear Spanish being spoken all around us while in our home country, I don't know if it's realistic to expect everybody "off the boat" to communicate well in English. Clearly, it's in the immigrants' best interest to become as fluent as possible, but sadly, many choose to remain in linguistic ghettos.
Sometimes as a thought experiment I like to imagine what it would be like if I could go, say, to Mongolia and make $100/hr shoveling dirt. I would jump at the chance! But would I assimilate well with the locals or stick with the other Americans? Would my language skills improve, or would I only learn the minimum to get by? Would Mongolians feel uncomfortable around me? Resent me? Try to get to know me? I really don't know.
But I certainly don't think someone's a racist because they don't want to speak Spanish. What do you think?
Do you agree that when someone takes permanent residency in another home/country, they do everything to prepare & adjust correct?
Someone that does not prepare & adjust doesn't care.
There is no language requirement to immigrate legally to the United States (or for a U.S. citizen returning to the U.S.). A Legal Permanent Resident is not required to naturalize to U.S. citizenship. As long as someone can reasonably follow the naturalization interview, transcribe a spoken sentence into English, and read an offered English sentence out loud (when waivers of that requirement can start as low as 50 years old), that is the first and only official checkpoint an immigrant will encounter to know English.
Why must it be spelled out for any person immigrating here?
English is American heritage. If you respect & love the country you do what you can to adjust learn the American heritage, customs, & traditions.
Why must it be spelled out for any person immigrating here?
English is American heritage. If you respect & love the country you do what you can to adjust learn the American heritage, customs, & traditions.
That says a lot.
And they do assimilate...
But my comment was to show there is no official requirement to learn or know English...
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