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Old 01-09-2009, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Doonan, QLD
103 posts, read 111,487 times
Reputation: 147

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori-vivi View Post
So, you claim to have been an ER MD, in Fl/TX/CA, and now left the country, uhmmmm..... sounds fishy,, truly md??.
I would still like to see the evidence of the illegal mother holding up an
entire institution
I don't believe I stuttered in type or otherwise; and I also would have no idea why anyone would claim to be an ER Physician who wasn't. It isn't an enviable position, despite what may be presented on television.

Graduated from UCSD School of Medicine in 1994, specialized, board certified in 1998 ... Pretty boring stuff. It's a pity that instead of responding to the content of the post, this is the best one can come up with.

I never made the initial claim of the hospital being held hostage by a single person, but I will make the claim of virtually every hospital on both coasts and extending to middle America being held hostage by illegal aliens, in the sense that they are required by federal law to provide emergency care, which extends to the facility's ability to stabilize and care for any urgent problem (the EMTALA law). This includes inpatient care.

In regard to a case of a severely disabled child that requires ongoing hospitalization; it is not quite as simple as an ethics committee consult and turn off the ventilator. In most places in the world it is; but the U.S. has a real challenge with withdrawing care; and although it does happen; doing so against the parent's wishes typically leads to even greater costs legally.

Making an easier case; a premature delivery at 26 weeks -- average costs of care in the first year, several hundred thousand dollars; this is a cost the health care system absorbs; which means tax payers and cost of insurance and quality of care for those who have paid into the system with their taxes and insurance money.

In California, I saw more than 1 surgeon leave practice due to the burden of being on call and receiving so much business from non-paying patients, mostly illegal aliens, that they simply felt it was not worth, economically remaining.

As an ED physician, I feel it all averaged out, for me personally, economically. ED visits reimburse higher than primary care visits and we provide more procedures and critical care; thus billing is very high and even with non-payment, income was fair. However, from a patient perspective; is it fair to have to be billed at such a high level to subsidize the care of others who are not only delaying your care as an ED patient, but have no intention on paying anything for their care nor paying into the taxation system that supports this system?

The worst case scenarios are the lower middle income fellow comes in with an acute MI, goes right to the cath lab, gets stented -- does well; but has $40-50,000 in bills - doesn't have insurance -- hard working guy, has young kids, wife, etc -- just can't easily afford insurance. Now we have an illegal; or for that matter someone who hasn't worked a day in their life, smokes, doesn't take care of themselves -- in the case of the illegal - -no effective method to bill -- gets the procedure done, walks out with no bill (or at least not one that will be paid) -- the other person who is of little intrinsic value to society, gets medicaid.

There is an inequity, in that we supply medical care to those who are in the U.S. illegally for free, and to those who are not working or paying into the system; and then screw over the people who are really struggling. However, this $40-50,000 would have been 30% less if there were not all this unfunded care coming through.

Regardless, the system is broken and the federal government both not maintaining the borders and secondarily mandating care be given to everyone (without funding this) is something that harms the quality of care and the expense of care for all. Just one more thing to consider in the evaluation of whether illegal immigration is such a benign thing.

And yes, to your original question, an M.D., still licensed in Florida and California, but actually enjoying a different healthcare system these days in Australia.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,181 posts, read 10,289,255 times
Reputation: 2984
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyG View Post
I don't believe I stuttered in type or otherwise; and I also would have no idea why anyone would claim to be an ER Physician who wasn't. It isn't an enviable position, despite what may be presented on television.

Graduated from UCSD School of Medicine in 1994, specialized, board certified in 1998 ... Pretty boring stuff. It's a pity that instead of responding to the content of the post, this is the best one can come up with.

I never made the initial claim of the hospital being held hostage by a single person, but I will make the claim of virtually every hospital on both coasts and extending to middle America being held hostage by illegal aliens, in the sense that they are required by federal law to provide emergency care, which extends to the facility's ability to stabilize and care for any urgent problem (the EMTALA law). This includes inpatient care.

In regard to a case of a severely disabled child that requires ongoing hospitalization; it is not quite as simple as an ethics committee consult and turn off the ventilator. In most places in the world it is; but the U.S. has a real challenge with withdrawing care; and although it does happen; doing so against the parent's wishes typically leads to even greater costs legally.

Making an easier case; a premature delivery at 26 weeks -- average costs of care in the first year, several hundred thousand dollars; this is a cost the health care system absorbs; which means tax payers and cost of insurance and quality of care for those who have paid into the system with their taxes and insurance money.

In California, I saw more than 1 surgeon leave practice due to the burden of being on call and receiving so much business from non-paying patients, mostly illegal aliens, that they simply felt it was not worth, economically remaining.

As an ED physician, I feel it all averaged out, for me personally, economically. ED visits reimburse higher than primary care visits and we provide more procedures and critical care; thus billing is very high and even with non-payment, income was fair. However, from a patient perspective; is it fair to have to be billed at such a high level to subsidize the care of others who are not only delaying your care as an ED patient, but have no intention on paying anything for their care nor paying into the taxation system that supports this system?

The worst case scenarios are the lower middle income fellow comes in with an acute MI, goes right to the cath lab, gets stented -- does well; but has $40-50,000 in bills - doesn't have insurance -- hard working guy, has young kids, wife, etc -- just can't easily afford insurance. Now we have an illegal; or for that matter someone who hasn't worked a day in their life, smokes, doesn't take care of themselves -- in the case of the illegal - -no effective method to bill -- gets the procedure done, walks out with no bill (or at least not one that will be paid) -- the other person who is of little intrinsic value to society, gets medicaid.

There is an inequity, in that we supply medical care to those who are in the U.S. illegally for free, and to those who are not working or paying into the system; and then screw over the people who are really struggling. However, this $40-50,000 would have been 30% less if there were not all this unfunded care coming through.

Regardless, the system is broken and the federal government both not maintaining the borders and secondarily mandating care be given to everyone (without funding this) is something that harms the quality of care and the expense of care for all. Just one more thing to consider in the evaluation of whether illegal immigration is such a benign thing.

And yes, to your original question, an M.D., still licensed in Florida and California, but actually enjoying a different healthcare system these days in Australia.
Thanks again for sharing your firsthand knowledge of the massive abuse of our healthcare system by illegal aliens. Sadly, hospitals nationwide are being bankrupted; and itís mind-boggling why our government allows this to continue. This is infuriating!
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:55 AM
 
197 posts, read 167,842 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Thanks again for sharing your firsthand knowledge of the massive abuse of our healthcare system by illegal aliens. Sadly, hospitals nationwide are being bankrupted; and itís mind-boggling why our government allows this to continue. This is infuriating!

While so many people spend their time making all these claims, the real criminals that have destroyed our country are going abroad to live their dream lives after they sucked up all the money they could from wall street. In the meantime the anti immigration radicals keep on announcing about all these myths that the immigrants come here and the next day they begin living like kings with all the government hand-outs they get.

I still need to see the evidence of the undocumented mexican woman keeping a hospital to her will, ha, ha,ha....
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Doonan, QLD
103 posts, read 111,487 times
Reputation: 147
In regard to whatever woman is being referred to -- I have no idea; but in regard to the costs of care of illegal aliens -- let's look to San Diego (where I trained and graduated from medical school in 1994), the county of San Diego evaluated what they felt the cost of illegal immigration was to just this county.

The story is at:
Report estimates county's illegal immigrant cost at $256 million in 2006 : North County Times - Californian (http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/09/08/news/top_stories/19_46_779_7_07.txt - broken link)

They concluded $256 million dollars in 2006, of which $155 million was medical care. As a medical student, I noted, rotating through obstetrics at USCD Medical Center, it was rare to get an English speaking mom, and a substantial number were fresh to the U.S., in late 3rd trimester. There are real costs. Whether or not a single person holds a healthcare system at hostage matters not; a single person can only generate so many bills; however, a mass of people, all not paying their bills and not paying taxes makes a real impact.

It hurts healthcare access and the financial solvency of hospitals. At the same time, the federal government who exercises its rights to control the borders, fails to do so, requires these same institutions to provide any necessary medical care; and thereafter generate birth certificates that make newcomers U.S. citizens, despite the mom not being present legally in the country.

The list of articles on costs of illegal immigration are long indeed and proponents of illegal immigrants will attempt to discredit the figures. The bottom line is that there is a cost and I can comment on the cost in healthcare.

When working fee for service in Northern California, I took care of everyone as carefully and respectfully as possible; but I was almost never paid for my services provided to illegal immigrants. This was fine; I still paid my bills and have no complaints. However, if we were seeing 20-30% less patients (which would be the case with no illegal immigrants) -- wait times and also the availability of services, cost of services and availability of specialist physicians would have been markedly improved.

To be illustrative, when we have an orthopedist on call over the weekend and we provide them with a mix of:
-2 elderly hip fractures
-1 illegal ankle fracture
-1 illegal trauma with spinal fracture
-1 non paying legal resident with leg fracture
-1 child of an illegal with a wrist fracture
-1 child here legally with insurance with elbow fracture

The orthopedist looks at 2 medicare cases, and 3 non-paying cases for the weekend, the child of the illegal has MediCal (medicaid in california) and the one child with private insurance.

So he stays busy all day in the O.R. with these cases, gets paid reduced rates for MediCare, deals with 3 people that he needs translators for, of which only 1 is paying -- and this is at 25% of his normal rate through MediCal, deals with the 1 non paying person here legally and gets fuller payment for services from just the one child with private insurance.

This is a very typical scenario and very common weekend for being the ortho doc on call for an ED. So if there were only people here legally, we now see a weekend of 2 MediCare cases and one child with insurance and the one guy here legally who won't pay anything. The ortho doc can deal with this scenaro, but the first scenario just doesn't work.

This is why we are losing access to specialists in ED -- these docs move their practices to office only and associate themselves with a surgery center so they can do their procedures there (as most hospitals require that if you have staff privileges at the hospital you take ED call). So the end effect, is that when a legal U.S. resident comes in to the ED; the likelihood of having the specialist you might need available is going down.

If there is any doubt about this; do a little research, I've lived it, know this system inside and out.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,630,274 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori-vivi View Post
While so many people spend their time making all these claims, the real criminals that have destroyed our country are going abroad to live their dream lives after they sucked up all the money they could from wall street. In the meantime the anti immigration radicals keep on announcing about all these myths that the immigrants come here and the next day they begin living like kings with all the government hand-outs they get.

I still need to see the evidence of the undocumented mexican woman keeping a hospital to her will, ha, ha,ha....
Face it: your credibility is low (and declining even further) in my eyes since you keep lumping legal immigrants in with illegal aliens.

Give it up: you and your kindred pro illegal fans have been called out.
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:47 PM
 
197 posts, read 167,842 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Face it: your credibility is low (and declining even further) in my eyes since you keep lumping legal immigrants in with illegal aliens.

Give it up: you and your kindred pro illegal fans have been called out.
The myth about all the freebies undocumented peopleget, has been debunked, what's the next myth?, that a couple of "vatos locos" orchestrated 9/11?? Ha,Ha, Ha..
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Central Florida
2,130 posts, read 2,056,220 times
Reputation: 870
Your messages are just a truth that no one can deny. I read that, despite all the protesting, 70% of Americans are against illegal immigration. We just have to watch out for those stupid senators in California and put a stop to them. Even a simple legislation such as being in the US for a year before your new baby can be an anchor baby would be a big help, or charging anchor babies for every welfare dime and free medical care given to their illegal immigrant families to pay back when those anchor babies become working adults up to the time when their parents became US citizens, if they do. Divorced fathers are required to pay back a state's welfare costs for their children, and they are hunted down. Why can't illegals do the same thing. We have to stop the freebies for illegals if we're to survive as a nation. You can't put two ton of stuff in a one ton truck. As Obama said yesterday, everybody has to have to skin in this.


[quote=BigDaddyG;6942370]In regard to whatever woman is being referred to -- I have no idea; but in regard to the costs of care of illegal aliens -- let's look to San Diego (where I trained and graduated from medical school in 1994), the county of San Diego evaluated what they felt the cost of illegal immigration was to just this county.
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Land of Sunshine & Sh*t (aka Tucson, AZ)
163 posts, read 137,376 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori-vivi View Post
The myth about all the freebies undocumented peopleget, has been debunked, what's the next myth?, that a couple of "vatos locos" orchestrated 9/11?? Ha,Ha, Ha..
No it hasn't. Ha, Ha, Ha..
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,630,274 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimy View Post
No it hasn't. Ha, Ha, Ha..
Consider the source.
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,068 posts, read 981,212 times
Reputation: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyG View Post
I don't believe I stuttered in type or otherwise; and I also would have no idea why anyone would claim to be an ER Physician who wasn't. It isn't an enviable position, despite what may be presented on television.

Graduated from UCSD School of Medicine in 1994, specialized, board certified in 1998 ... Pretty boring stuff. It's a pity that instead of responding to the content of the post, this is the best one can come up with.

I never made the initial claim of the hospital being held hostage by a single person, but I will make the claim of virtually every hospital on both coasts and extending to middle America being held hostage by illegal aliens, in the sense that they are required by federal law to provide emergency care, which extends to the facility's ability to stabilize and care for any urgent problem (the EMTALA law). This includes inpatient care.

In regard to a case of a severely disabled child that requires ongoing hospitalization; it is not quite as simple as an ethics committee consult and turn off the ventilator. In most places in the world it is; but the U.S. has a real challenge with withdrawing care; and although it does happen; doing so against the parent's wishes typically leads to even greater costs legally.

Making an easier case; a premature delivery at 26 weeks -- average costs of care in the first year, several hundred thousand dollars; this is a cost the health care system absorbs; which means tax payers and cost of insurance and quality of care for those who have paid into the system with their taxes and insurance money.

In California, I saw more than 1 surgeon leave practice due to the burden of being on call and receiving so much business from non-paying patients, mostly illegal aliens, that they simply felt it was not worth, economically remaining.

As an ED physician, I feel it all averaged out, for me personally, economically. ED visits reimburse higher than primary care visits and we provide more procedures and critical care; thus billing is very high and even with non-payment, income was fair. However, from a patient perspective; is it fair to have to be billed at such a high level to subsidize the care of others who are not only delaying your care as an ED patient, but have no intention on paying anything for their care nor paying into the taxation system that supports this system?

The worst case scenarios are the lower middle income fellow comes in with an acute MI, goes right to the cath lab, gets stented -- does well; but has $40-50,000 in bills - doesn't have insurance -- hard working guy, has young kids, wife, etc -- just can't easily afford insurance. Now we have an illegal; or for that matter someone who hasn't worked a day in their life, smokes, doesn't take care of themselves -- in the case of the illegal - -no effective method to bill -- gets the procedure done, walks out with no bill (or at least not one that will be paid) -- the other person who is of little intrinsic value to society, gets medicaid.

There is an inequity, in that we supply medical care to those who are in the U.S. illegally for free, and to those who are not working or paying into the system; and then screw over the people who are really struggling. However, this $40-50,000 would have been 30% less if there were not all this unfunded care coming through.

Regardless, the system is broken and the federal government both not maintaining the borders and secondarily mandating care be given to everyone (without funding this) is something that harms the quality of care and the expense of care for all. Just one more thing to consider in the evaluation of whether illegal immigration is such a benign thing.

And yes, to your original question, an M.D., still licensed in Florida and California, but actually enjoying a different healthcare system these days in Australia.
Good one BD. I agree with every bit of that !!!!!!!
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