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Old 02-20-2007, 05:57 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
431 posts, read 310,206 times
Reputation: 198

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Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
Actually if you read UB50’s statement and understand his words, you would see they were very specific when he stated



It was very specific to Jesus the Messiah. As in Jesus, the son of God.

Your argument referring to Jesus regarding Atheist/Agnostic beliefs is not similar since you’re referring to Jesus as a person, which is entirely different from Jesus as Messiah.

Nice strawman argument though. I might have missed it if I didn’t read UB50’s own statement. You might want to take the time to understand if you take key words out that you do change the intent of the statement. Or did you already know that?
No. I re-read UB50's statement and my reply stands as posted.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 516,750 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittle View Post
No. I re-read UB50's statement and my reply stands as posted.
When referred to as Jesus or Jesus of Nazareth, it references the historical figure who most believe did indeed walk the earth. However, with the addition of the name "Christ," it implies divinity as "Christ" means Messiah or "anointed one."
Athiests may believe Jesus walked the earth, but they do NOT believe he is Christ, Son of God.

Last edited by doublet; 02-21-2007 at 06:52 AM..
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,167,189 times
Reputation: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittle View Post
No. I re-read UB50's statement and my reply stands as posted.
Your reply as it stands is not a true comparison to his statement. Too bad you cannot see that.

So did you actually take my statment as a personal attack? Why the negative rep point? Was it necessary to make the statement with the negative rep point "personal assault!, grow up!". Can you articulate why you feel it was personal when you made an invalid comparison and was called on it?

Last edited by madicarus2000; 02-21-2007 at 09:36 AM.. Reason: update comment
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Old 02-21-2007, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 516,750 times
Reputation: 104
Default Islam Facts???? Response to Whitelite

I reread the original post of this thread, and it offends my sensibilities when someone labels a thread ”Islam Facts,” that proceeds to give false and misleading information.

#1 – Islam is indeed the Arabic term for “submission.” You say the word as if it defiles your mouth, and yet I consistently hear from Christians that submitting to God is a good and noble thing. In fact, submitting to God’s will and following His narrow path is the ONLY way to salvation, according to Christians. For me personally, this constant call to submission, especially of a female, leads me to question just who this submission benefits. And I mostly find it is NOT ME, except in some vague promise of afterlife rewards. However, I can understand the appeal of the concept as a path toward peace as is written here from About.com:

…the word [Islam] is rich in meaning and has many connections to other fundamental Islamic concepts. The Arabic term 'islam means "submission" and itself comes from the term 'aslama, which means "to surrender, resign oneself." In Islam, the fundamental duty of each member is to submit to Allah (Arabic for "the God") and whatever Allah wants of them...
…related to the Syriac 'aslem which means "to make peace, surrender" and that in turn appears to be derived from the Semtic stem of *slem which means to be complete. Islam is closely related to the Arabic word for peace, salem. Muslims believe that true peace can only be achieved through true obedience to the will of Allah. Commitment to Islam is supposed to result in a constant struggle to achieve peace, justice and equality.
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...slam_islam.htm


Doesn’t sound like terrorism to me. Not any more than Christian ideas about submission to God’s will in order to become complete and attain peace, justice, equality. It becomes clear that any Muslim who is not working peacefully for these things is not really practicing Muslim principles. We could use the same argument for Muslims that Sunshine Baby used in defending Christians…
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineBaby View Post
I can assure you, if any person did anything like this, he was not a Christian. He only called himself a Christian, and went to a Christian church...
#2 – Responding to your accusation that Allah is little more than “a little stone idol moon god that originally came from the Babylonian moon god, "BEL" – I can cite ancient Gnostic texts that discredit Jehovah as an arrogant, prideful, temper-tantrum throwing, lesser God born from Sophia (wisdom). You would scoff, I know, but the point is we can all make great leaps and assumptions, backed by theological research of scripture, to discredit ANYONE else’s expression of God. And therefore, your argument is no stronger than to argue that ALL expressions of God are valid and “true” and valuable to human experience.

#3 – Your use of the term “so-called” prophet in referring to Muhammad is just snide and belittling and reflects more about you than Muhammad. The same reference could be made in addressing Jesus or his disciples as prophets, however, we would all be accused of Christian-bashing rather than presenting the “facts.”

#4 – To say “Their religion, life style, laws, and politics are all the same…” is like saying all black people look alike , or, you women are all alike. It’s more a demonstration of ignorance than statement of fact.

#5 And lastly, to say, “Deception, lies, deceit are commanded by Islam to reach their goal of world domination…” Well, let’s just say that sounds like the antics of the Bush administration. And we all know who their major supporters include…the Christian religious right!!

I will take everything you post, Whitelite, with a nod and a smile. You are well-versed in the art of “spew[ing] out false propaganda as to make the unlearned sympathize and accept your religion of hate,” as you accuse the Muslim people.
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Old 02-21-2007, 05:13 PM
 
36 posts, read 89,085 times
Reputation: 28
Default Doublet

Why don't you prove me wrong with facts from the Koran and or the Hadith. Your non-educated statements are just your opinion.

Murder, violence, deception, war, beating, Kidnapping, beheading, are all in the Koran and are to be inflicted on the infidel and those who oppose Allah and his will for the Muslims who are to bring the world under his rule.

I quoted the Koran and the Hadith. You said it was false. Where? What verse? What was misleading about what I just said. Show me in the KORAN. If you can, I will recant.

I've had friends die at the hands of Muslims who followed the Koran. Why do you defend their belief system? Are you a Muslim?
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 776,007 times
Reputation: 169
The audacity it must take to describe someone's opinion as "non-educated" when the original post is littered with known misconceptions of the given religion...
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Old 02-21-2007, 08:11 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
431 posts, read 310,206 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
Your reply as it stands is not a true comparison to his statement. Too bad you cannot see that.

So did you actually take my statment as a personal attack? Why the negative rep point? Was it necessary to make the statement with the negative rep point "personal assault!, grow up!". Can you articulate why you feel it was personal when you made an invalid comparison and was called on it?
I didn't give you a negative rep point. I would suggest you ask a moderator to verify that for you. Accusing me of that deed BEFORE YOU ASKED ME if I had left the feedback is uncalled for, and VERY DESERVING of negative rep points from ME! IF I ever leave negative, I have the b@lls to sign my name!
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 516,750 times
Reputation: 104
Default Quotations, anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
Why do you defend their belief system? Are you a Muslim?
Obviously you have not read my post in this thread stating my beliefs or you would not have asked such an ignorant question. And I certainly do not defend the Islamic belief system, as I regard ALL the Old Testament religions with equal contempt. I DO, however, defend a Muslim’s right to peaceful religious expression and recognize their belief system and religious experiences as no more or less valid than any others.

Because of my conviction that NO religious scripture is the unadulterated “Word of God,”-- --you are right that I cannot quote these writings that hold no legitimacy for me. However, a little research has unearthed these apparently conflicting ideals set forth by Muhammad in regards to violence and tolerance:

~Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil. (Al- Tirmidhi)
~All creation is the family of God, and the person most beloved by God [is the one] who is kind and caring toward His family.
~Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind. (Qur’an, Chapter 5, Verse 32)
~If anyone harms [others], God will harm him, and if anyone shows hostility to others, God will show hostility to him. (Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 1625)
~Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. (Qur'an, Chapter 2, verse 190)
~O mankind! We created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know and honor each other. Indeed the most honorable of you in the sight of God is the most righteous. (Qur’an, Chapter 49, Verse 13)
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:35 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 34,094,854 times
Reputation: 15063
PLEASE stay on topic and end the insults.
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 516,750 times
Reputation: 104
Default And some more...

~Repel [evil] with what is better. Then will he, between whom and thee was hatred, become as it were thy friend and intimate. And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint. (Qur’an, Chapter 41, Verse 34 and 35)
~Say ye: 'We believe in God and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to [all] Prophets from their Lord. We make no difference between one and another of them, and we bow to God.' (Qur’an, Chapter 2, Verse 136)
~It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing. (Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1011)
~...you should show courtesy and be cordial with each other, so that nobody should consider himself superior to another nor do him harm. (Riyadh-us-Saleheen. Hadith 602)
~Anyone who believes in God and the Last Day [of Judgment] should not harm his neighbor. Anyone who believes in God and the Last Day should entertain his guest generously. And anyone who believes in God and the Last Day should say what is good or keep quiet. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 47)
~Avoid cruelty and injustice...and guard yourselves against miserliness, for this has ruined nations who lived before you. (Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Hadith 203)
~[Allah] has revealed to me that you should adopt humility so that no one oppresses another. (Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Hadith 1589)
~[The man asked] 'Who is more entitled to be treated with the best companionship by me?' The Prophet said, 'Your mother.' The man said. 'Who is next?' The Prophet said, 'Your mother.' The man further said, 'Who is next?' The Prophet said, 'Your mother.' The man asked for the fourth time, 'Who is next?' The Prophet said, 'Your father.' (Sahih al-Bukhari)
~Sometimes I enter prayer and I intend to prolong it, but then I hear a child crying, and I shorten my prayer thinking of the distress of the child's mother. (Fiqh us-Sunnah, Volume 2, Number 51b)

And so, regarding the study of religious scripture and its use in defending an argument, you can find whatever you wish to find. Your comments in this thread have served no purpose other than to verbally assassinate a group of people you fear and hate, and contaminate the rest of us with your religious bigotry. Some self-examination should be the order of the day!
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