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Old 02-19-2007, 10:29 AM
 
36 posts, read 89,138 times
Reputation: 28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
This is of course, your interpretation, but Pope Sylvester read his scriptures too, as did Coeur De Leon and De Gama. They would argue with you, and quote scripture to back them up, same as you do.

That is the nice thing about being a Christian, you can find whatever you want in the bible to support what ever you want. And you are no more correct than the Hopi who came to this world from the fourth world to save the white man from himself.

Based on your post, if your children were the victims of violent sexual assault, you would bless the attackers, do good to them.

Have you ever cut your hair? Please remember that St. Paul cautioned women against such prideful sin as cutting their hair. He also advised that if your eye caused you to sin, you should pluck it out. Well, you haven't and he didn't.

Remember this, after all, the muslims do. For the past one thousand years muslims have been under constant attack by Christian armies. For the past 500 years there has not been a 10 year period in which Muslims have escaped attack from Christian Armies, what is happening in Iraq, is merely the latest attack.
Boy are you off. You don't know the difference between a Catholic and a Christian for starters. The popes at that time did and they murdered millions of them (Christians) as well as Muslims. Ask a "good" Catholic if they are Christian and they will say no I'm a Catholic. From your quote "St. Paul", can we assume that your background is Catholic? Your historical understanding of that period is very good if you don't get that, and you have limited knowledge and understanding of the Bible.

Example: Paul was talking in I Corinthians 11 to the church at Corinth about Christian church doctrines of women wearing a head covering when praying. Prideful sin????? you say? Where is that? (Chapter and verse please). Also, you said that "he" Paul (as you continued in your statememt) said that if your eye caused you to sin to pluck it out. Wow, Paul never said that, Jesus did. Read the rest of the verses that go along with the point Jesus was trying to get across to those who would hear. The thrust was it's better to go into life everlasting halt or maimed than to go into Hell whole. (read Matthew 18:8-9, Mark 9:45-47) This is a hyperbolize which Jesus used often as well as parables.

Matthew 13:13 "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."


Also, you said "what is happening in Iraq, is merely the latest attack" of Christians against the Muslims. What? The American Military isn't a Christian Army.
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Old 02-19-2007, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Maine
16,651 posts, read 20,881,825 times
Reputation: 19262
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
You don't know the difference between a Catholic and a Christian for starters.
In the Middle Ages, there was no difference. Even today, the difference is slight. All Catholics are Christians, but not necessarily all Christians are Catholics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
The popes at that time did and they murdered millions of them (Christians) as well as Muslims.
What's your source for that? When did "the popes" murder millions of Christians or Muslims?


Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
Ask a "good" Catholic if they are Christian and they will say no I'm a Catholic.
Oo boy. You don't actually know any Catholics, do you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
Also, you said "what is happening in Iraq, is merely the latest attack" of Christians against the Muslims. What? The American Military isn't a Christian Army.
Well, you're right there. And the US isn't a "Christian nation." That being said, I don't know that Iraqis necessarily see it that way. This war wasn't motivated by religion. It was motivation by hubris and greed.
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Old 02-19-2007, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 517,203 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
Also, you said "what is happening in Iraq, is merely the latest attack" of Christians against the Muslims. What? The American Military isn't a Christian Army.
Perhaps not, but of the principles are the same:
~ blind, unquestioning devotion and loyalty to those higher in the hierarchy
~ violence sanctioned in the name of a "greater good"
~ demonization of those who's beliefs and values are different
~ demeaning, disrespectful and oppressive of women, within their own ranks as well as those women "belonging to" the enemy

AND, the US military's job is to defend the principles and values of a country American Christians LOOOVVVE to label a "Christian nation founded on Christian tenets."
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 517,203 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
This war wasn't motivated by religion. It was motivation by hubris and greed.
You nailed it, Mark S. It's tragic and shameful...like MOST of this Administration's handling of critical decisions that affect the masses.

In addition to this illegal war, I cite:
Katrina; 2007 budget appropriations; illegal wiretapping; eminent domain; illegal torture of prisoners; laws continuing to support big business exploitation of garment workers, migrant workers, minimum wage workers, women workers and illegal immigrant workers; laws supporting the limitation of women's domain over their own bodies (abortion, birth control, emergency contraception, health benefit exclusions)...I could continue the list, I'm sure, but my heart is so sad thinking of the impact on soooo many people of these things alone.

ALL motivated by hubris and greed. Thank you, Mark S.!

Last edited by doublet; 02-19-2007 at 03:18 PM.. Reason: misspelling; i'm anal that way
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:25 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,837,898 times
Reputation: 350
My brother and his wierd church figure all catholics, and in fact everyone who isn't a member of his church are all going to hell.

You may not see this as a religious war, but quite obviously the Muslims do.

As I recollect, in boot camp we were required to attend Christian services every Sunday. Seemed like a Christian military at that time.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 776,740 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineBaby View Post
You're right. What I say a Christian is doesn't matter. But I am getting my information from the very source of the faith: the Bible.

It doesn't sound like Richard Coeur De Lion, De Gama, or those wearing a cross while killing Muslims fit the description.
It's convenient now to brush off history's violence done in the name of God as ill-informed simply because civilizations have progressed beyond accepting such behavior. It's also convenient to "apologize" to scientists of the middle ages for being ex-communicated from the church because civilization has progressed and accepted science according to the scientific method. It's really convenient to sweep the dark parts of Christian history under the rug, huh?

I suppose a few hundred years from now "Christians" will apologize for the lack of diplomacy among various religions and the subsequent prejudice that has coincided.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 12,091,511 times
Reputation: 2000001304
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
My brother and his wierd church figure all catholics, and in fact everyone who isn't a member of his church are all going to hell.

You may not see this as a religious war, but quite obviously the Muslims do.

As I recollect, in boot camp we were required to attend Christian services every Sunday. Seemed like a Christian military at that time.
I went to bootcamp in 1981 in San Diego. It was darn hot on those grinders and a lot of us went to church just because it offered us a chance to get into an air-conditioned space and then have a few minutes to smoke after we left. No one forced us to, we went because it was a way to get away from the bootcamp regulations for an hour or two without breaking rules.
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 517,203 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
My brother and his wierd church figure all catholics, and in fact everyone who isn't a member of his church are all going to hell.
What's the name of his "weird church?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
As I recollect, in boot camp we were required to attend Christian services every Sunday. Seemed like a Christian military at that time.
What year were you in boot camp? Things have gotten more "pc" since groups of people have started exercising their courage in speaking out against injustices. Still has a loooonnnnng way to go, though. Another topic altogether...
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 517,203 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMark View Post
I went to bootcamp in 1981 in San Diego. It was darn hot on those grinders and a lot of us went to church just because it offered us a chance to get into an air-conditioned space and then have a few minutes to smoke after we left. No one forced us to, we went because it was a way to get away from the bootcamp regulations for an hour or two without breaking rules.
Extreme heat and regulations, reminiscent of hell, would be the ONLY thing that could drive me into a church nowadays. LOL!!
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Maine
16,651 posts, read 20,881,825 times
Reputation: 19262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
It's convenient now to brush off history's violence done in the name of God as ill-informed simply because civilizations have progressed beyond accepting such behavior.
I don't know any one doing that. But I do now folks who understand that you have to judge the people of the 1500s (or whatever) by the age in which they lived. In hindsight, were the actions of Columbus pretty abhorrent? Yeah, maybe. But hindsight is 20/20.

And if you'll study the history, VERY few conflicts (and almost no wars) were instigated solely by religion. More often than not, it has a lot more to do with economic and political issues. Religion came into it, of course, because most folks of that era were very religious.

Even the Crusades (anti-religious folks' favorite reference) had more to do with trade routes, expansionism, and economics than religion. And they also tend to forget that Europe only "hit back" after Muslim invaders had conquered all of North Africa and were well on their way to taking Spain --- by force.
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