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Old 02-17-2007, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 516,677 times
Reputation: 104

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ok...everybody just relax and let the testosterone and adrenaline dissipate for a moment. I just stepped back in after a long hiatus and this thread is BLOWING MY MIND!! So I MUST enter my 2 cents before this thread is locked.

Regarding my own beliefs on the subject--and they are only MY beliefs, not spoken as any Supreme TRUTH, since I do not believe human beings at this stage of evolution capable of comprehending Supreme TRUTH:

1) All Gods are one God. All Goddesses are one Goddess. God and Goddess are One. There is no Satan, as there is only the One.

2) Jehovah and Allah are NOT the same, except as defined above. Arabs of Old Testament faiths may say the word "Allah," translated as "God," and be worshipping very different Gods with different myths, belief systems, traditions, idiologies. In the US, most Christians and non-Christians use the word "God" to describe a Creator or Source, but ask them to describe their beliefs about that Creator and you'll get very different ideas, many of which are incompatible. The Universal Father of love and compassion Christ speaks of is a very different God than the violent, wrathful, prideful Jehovah of the Old Testament. And yet we call them the same.

3) What all Old Testament faiths DO share is:
~ a concept of humans as fundamentally flawed, sinful, and in need of authority over them to bring them to "righteousness."
~ a dualism that pits us agains our very nature, urging us to label our "dark side" as evil, dirty, shameful, of Satan, thus encouraging denial and repression of some very normal but powerful human feelings and creating an unhealthy, "split" psyche.
~ an hierarchy that puts man right below God, and woman right above Satan, creating an imbalance in every institution on earth. More than 5000 years of hatred and degradation of women has stunted our human development and delivered the greatest diservice to humankind. Jesus' message about the status of women under God was clearly documented by his demonstrations of honor and respect toward the women he encountered. And yet 2000 years later, mysogyny thrives, enthusiastically defended by the Scriptures of the great faiths. I judge a faith's validity as the "Word of God" by how it's beliefs regard those seen as societally less than--women, blacks, gays, children, etc. Jesus spoke the closest to the truth for me in teaching love for all. However, Christianity today has very little to do with Jesus' teachings, and there is no scripture I trust as authentic and unmanipulated.

4) I do not intend to offend when I write this, but...All the religions of the Old Testament scriptures we now accept as credible are based on religious propaganda perpetrated whatever religious/political force was trying to gain or maintain power at the time. Anything that was authentic has been manipulated and bastardized.
~ Many of the traditions and religious concepts of the world faiths were hjacked from deep-rooted pagan beliefs and traditions in an effort to bring them into the mainstream religion while watering down their stubburn attachment to thier own ways. I'm saying, who could blame someone for wanting to keep their own personal attachment to their Creator, ya know?

Anyway, the key is religious tolerance. And here's an awesome website by that name that gives unbiased information about all religions...PLEASE, PLEASE, check it out cuz y'all are skeerin' me!!

religioustolerance.org
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Old 02-17-2007, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Phoenix area
154 posts, read 516,677 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunshineBaby View Post
Look around at the Christians. What do you see? You see some that are hypocrites, right? But then there are others who are kind, loving and help others, who practice what they preach, and aren't out for themselves. Which do you think Jesus would call His disciple?
I look at the Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Buddhists, atheists and agnostics and I see the same thing. We're all fundamentally human, regardless of religious beliefs. And as humans, we have a great capacity for love and compassion as well as fear and power-over.
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Old 02-17-2007, 03:58 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 924,718 times
Reputation: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by BU View Post
What about the Christian abortion clinic bombers? They are also radicals in my opinion yet they feel justified in killing others for religious reasons.

I just found this index on Wiped which is kind of interesting: Religiously motivated violence in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._United_States

Not only are the 9/11 hijackers included, but so are the Salem witch trials!
Also, as in other religions you can claim Christianity and commit crime. The Bible does not tell a Christian to take this action so, if a Christan says they do in the name of God then, they are using the God of the Bible to justify their own wishes not God's. Plenty of Christan leaders step forward and speak against these actions many people do things for God's sake when they really have no faith at all.
I'll check out the site you referred above.
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Old 02-17-2007, 04:57 PM
 
36 posts, read 89,071 times
Reputation: 28
Default Back to the subject of Islam

When I started this thread, I was hoping for comments on Islam pure and simple. What happened was Muslim loving persons, switched the "Focus" to semantics and supposed Christain ideology.

I guess those who defend or shall I say want the "spot light" off of the HATE and VIOLENCE professed in Islam, are Muslims themselves or are using this thread to Christian bash.

To those types,------please defend the Koran, by using the Koran and Muslim beliefs (i.e. killing and taking the world over in the name of Allah through war). Please defend all of the murders (i.e. like when a cartoon was made about Muhammad or when the Pope quoted history and Muslims destroyed and murdered because they didn't like what he said), Muslims that blow themselves up for their religion. 9-11 would be a good starting point.

Oh, I almost forgot, you can't. All you can do is ATTACK--well isn't that just like a Muslim.
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:17 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,830,519 times
Reputation: 350
Well, you can, just like the Bible, you can find pretty much whatever you want to support what ever you want. Now, my first question to you is, have you gone to primary sources, have you read the Quran.

I have no trouble thinking that many muslims would like all non believers dead and that they would like to rule the earth.

I have no trouble thinking that many Christians would like all non believers dead and that they would like to rule the earth.

Now, if you truly love Jesus and wish the whole world to know the joy you know. Catch a plane to the UAE, a fairly liberal Arab Muslim state, take a bunch of Bibles and hand them out to the heathen. In other words, walk the walk and talk the talk.


Pretty darned brave to post away on a message board here in the US of A.
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:25 PM
 
36 posts, read 89,071 times
Reputation: 28
Default Maybe you should read before you post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Well, you can, just like the Bible, you can find pretty much whatever you want to support what ever you want. Now, my first question to you is, have you gone to primary sources, have you read the Quran..

I've quoted the Koran and Hadith in this thread, maybe you should read them and then ask again.
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:43 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,830,519 times
Reputation: 350
Yes, but, have you sat by the fire with a warm brandy and read the darned thing. That goes for the bible also. both books will tell you what you want to know, whatever it is, good, bad, or indifferent.

There was this Christian dude,, he took all the citizens of a muslim city, thousands of them, killed every single one.

There was this Christian dude, sailing aboot the ocean, came across a pilgrim ship, carrying hundreds of men, women and children on Hajj to Mecca. He, lit that boat, it too three days to burn and sink, killing every man woman and child.

You may not know this, but I assure you, every muslim does.
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:59 PM
 
9,715 posts, read 13,332,825 times
Reputation: 3319
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
When I started this thread, I was hoping for comments on Islam pure and simple. What happened was Muslim loving persons, switched the "Focus" to semantics and supposed Christain ideology.

I guess those who defend or shall I say want the "spot light" off of the HATE and VIOLENCE professed in Islam, are Muslims themselves or are using this thread to Christian bash.

To those types,------please defend the Koran, by using the Koran and Muslim beliefs (i.e. killing and taking the world over in the name of Allah through war). Please defend all of the murders (i.e. like when a cartoon was made about Muhammad or when the Pope quoted history and Muslims destroyed and murdered because they didn't like what he said), Muslims that blow themselves up for their religion. 9-11 would be a good starting point.

Oh, I almost forgot, you can't. All you can do is ATTACK--well isn't that just like a Muslim.
You were not specific in which groups you wanted to talk about. "Muslim" is not all one religion, neither is "Christianity." There are many different groups under Christianity like Roman Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, Christian Identity, Pentecostal, Orthodox, Mormons, etc. -- and they all believe different things. (Look at the disagreements above!)

Since we don't all interpret the bible the same, what makes you think all Muslims interpret the Koran the same way?

Which branches of the Muslim religion did you wish to discuss? Here is a list of the Branches: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_Islam

You'll notice that Al-Quida is listed under "Islamism" but I remember reading alot about "Wahhabism" and the Taliban after 9/11.

P.S. Also check out "Liberal" or "progressive" Islam since that is what most of the Muslims in the US/Canada are. They don't follow the Koran literally and they believe in equality for women. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal...s_within_Islam

Last edited by UB50; 02-17-2007 at 06:10 PM.. Reason: Added ps
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Old 02-17-2007, 10:51 PM
 
9,715 posts, read 13,332,825 times
Reputation: 3319
Ahem.

I am bumping this back up. Even though we got off topic and rather tense with each other, I don't believe we discussed all the various varieties of the Muslim religion. THEY ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS and they don't all interpret the Quran the same.

I feel that we need to acknowledge that.

The feeling in our country towards Muslims in general is kind of like everyone thinking that all Christians were in the KKK. It's simply not true.

Has anyone read anything about Liberal or Progressive Muslims? This is what we find living in the USA and Canada for the most part. They interpret the Quran entirely differently than those in the Middle East. Starting in the 19th Century, they started trying to live within Western standards so women have equality, etc. A lot of things are different for them. They interpret the Quran more loosely than those in the Middle East.

I have friends who are Muslim here in Los Angeles. Most of them are not very religious, though I once tried to set up a beautiful Muslim woman with a very "respected" Muslim man. It didn't work out. She was so beautiful that ALL the guys wanted to take her out -- yet she really wanted to find a Muslim man to marry and settle down with (because she thought she would be happier finding someone who shared her religion). He was a highly regarded artist in Iran and here in the US. Unfortunately, he didn't really want a Muslim wife. He wanted a California blonde. He was not religious at all. She thought he was the greatest. He wanted to know why I didn't have more blonde friends. He thought I was prettier than she was because I wasn't as dark (which struck me funny because she was truly beautiful but he thought Middle Eastern women were hairy!)

So much for taste!

Anyway, neither of them were terrorists. Neither are their friends.

Another Muslim friend is married to a Roman Catholic from Europe. Neither of them practice their relgiion.

I guess all this anti-Muslim sentiment bothers me because I have friends who are Muslim and I don't find them dangerous at all. I think they would be less likely to destroy the USA than some of the posters I've read on these boards. I don't believe they belong to some "terrorist cell" that is lying in wait here in the USA. I think a lot of people are needlessly paranoid and probably don't know ANY Muslims which probably helps them to be more paranoid.

So.... Does anyone else have something to add to this? (Whitelite was able to post all over yet not add a thing to this discussion!)
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:40 AM
 
36 posts, read 89,071 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Yes, but, have you sat by the fire with a warm brandy and read the darned thing. That goes for the bible also. both books will tell you what you want to know, whatever it is, good, bad, or indifferent.

There was this Christian dude,, he took all the citizens of a muslim city, thousands of them, killed every single one.

There was this Christian dude, sailing aboot the ocean, came across a pilgrim ship, carrying hundreds of men, women and children on Hajj to Mecca. He, lit that boat, it too three days to burn and sink, killing every man woman and child.

You may not know this, but I assure you, every muslim does.
Interesting in all my reading over many years, I've never read about the "Christian dudes" you spoke of in the Bible or the Koran.
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