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Old 02-18-2007, 08:44 AM
 
36 posts, read 89,071 times
Reputation: 28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post


Pretty darned brave to post away on a message board here in the US of A.

Thank you! You are making my point. Bash almost anyone else (Christians etc) and no-one is afraid of reprisal. Question the beliefs of the Islam and you post what you just did. "Pretty darned brave".

Why did you say that? Reprisal?
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:56 AM
 
36 posts, read 89,071 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
Ahem.

I am bumping this back up. Even though we got off topic and rather tense with each other, I don't believe we discussed all the various varieties of the Muslim religion. THEY ARE NOT ALL TERRORISTS and they don't all interpret the Quran the same.

I feel that we need to acknowledge that.

The feeling in our country towards Muslims in general is kind of like everyone thinking that all Christians were in the KKK. It's simply not true.

Has anyone read anything about Liberal or Progressive Muslims? This is what we find living in the USA and Canada for the most part. They interpret the Quran entirely differently than those in the Middle East. Starting in the 19th Century, they started trying to live within Western standards so women have equality, etc. A lot of things are different for them. They interpret the Quran more loosely than those in the Middle East.

I have friends who are Muslim here in Los Angeles. Most of them are not very religious, though I once tried to set up a beautiful Muslim woman with a very "respected" Muslim man. It didn't work out. She was so beautiful that ALL the guys wanted to take her out -- yet she really wanted to find a Muslim man to marry and settle down with (because she thought she would be happier finding someone who shared her religion). He was a highly regarded artist in Iran and here in the US. Unfortunately, he didn't really want a Muslim wife. He wanted a California blonde. He was not religious at all. She thought he was the greatest. He wanted to know why I didn't have more blonde friends. He thought I was prettier than she was because I wasn't as dark (which struck me funny because she was truly beautiful but he thought Middle Eastern women were hairy!)

So much for taste!

Anyway, neither of them were terrorists. Neither are their friends.

Another Muslim friend is married to a Roman Catholic from Europe. Neither of them practice their relgiion.

I guess all this anti-Muslim sentiment bothers me because I have friends who are Muslim and I don't find them dangerous at all. I think they would be less likely to destroy the USA than some of the posters I've read on these boards. I don't believe they belong to some "terrorist cell" that is lying in wait here in the USA. I think a lot of people are needlessly paranoid and probably don't know ANY Muslims which probably helps them to be more paranoid.

So.... Does anyone else have something to add to this? (Whitelite was able to post all over yet not add a thing to this discussion!)
Interesting that you base your Islam assumption on several Muslims friends you know. Have you asked them about their belief on what their religion says about infidels? That's you I suppose. Your viewing through "Rose colored glasses" I think.

After the bombings in England, all of the neighbors questioned said the same things about their Muslim friends who grew up among them. "I can't believe that they would do such things, they were always friendly and loving, we're all in a state of shock. (type thing).

Hasn't happend here apart from 9-11 because their numbers aren't that large yet and because to many Americans have weapons. France, Germany, England, other countries in Europe, Indonesia, Japan, China, Russia, Countries in the former USSR (yes I've been there) have found out how nice neighbors can do such things.
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Old 02-18-2007, 11:31 AM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
381 posts, read 1,551,041 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Yes, but, have you sat by the fire with a warm brandy and read the darned thing. That goes for the bible also. both books will tell you what you want to know, whatever it is, good, bad, or indifferent.

There was this Christian dude,, he took all the citizens of a muslim city, thousands of them, killed every single one.

There was this Christian dude, sailing aboot the ocean, came across a pilgrim ship, carrying hundreds of men, women and children on Hajj to Mecca. He, lit that boat, it too three days to burn and sink, killing every man woman and child.

You may not know this, but I assure you, every muslim does.
I can assure you, if any person did anything like this, he was not a Christian. He only called himself a Christian, and went to a Christian church. But he was not a "new creation through Christ Jesus the Lord." He was not a disciple of the Man who said, "Love your enemies, do good to those who persecute you, and pray for those who spitefully use you."
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Old 02-18-2007, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,166,901 times
Reputation: 536
Oh Momark, your posts are entirely amusing to read since they do lack any coherent response to the issue being addressed. They are also nice examples of dogmatic diatribes with an air of pretentiousness when a person is unable to understand viewpoints that don’t align with their own. Instead of understanding or researching the beliefs of others by researching their material, you prefer to understand them by their critics. Then you validate those critics with like-minded critics. So following your methodology, how does one understand the tenets of a Jehovah Witness, well by Momarks example, seek a critic or one who has left the belief. Don’t actually seek out the followers of a belief.

No wonder there are so many misconceptions about religion in the world, too many people like you who prefer to seek out only those sources that invalidate contrary beliefs instead of seeking the truth to understand the tenets of a belief. As they say, ignorance is bliss.
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Old 02-18-2007, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 12,081,045 times
Reputation: 2000001303
Quote:
Originally Posted by madicarus2000 View Post
As they say, ignorance is bliss.
I'm am very happy to know then by your own standards that you're blissful and happy Good for you! I've noticed in all of your postings that you've done everything possible to retain that blissful state - a mighty achievement in the face of so many facts and truths that have been thrown at you.
It's too bad you can't separate the argument from the person.
And I'd still invite you to actually explain why Allah is Jehovah, something you haven't even attempted (and I agree it would be difficult to do!).
I think what you perceive as "pretentiousness" is simply a reactive reflex of your intellectual weakness. The false claims of taking amusement are also another sign of insecurity....which also typically is accompanied by the personal barbs you've seem to employ. You're not amused at all. You're thoroughly ticked off! But that's your fault isn't it for taking on something you simply haven't got the skill to debate.
It's a question of both knowledge and maturity. You can learn the knowledge. The maturity is trickier at your age I'd think.

Last edited by MoMark; 02-18-2007 at 04:30 PM..
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Old 02-18-2007, 03:51 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,830,519 times
Reputation: 350
First: SunshineBaby The first person I mentioned was Richard the Lion Hearted, on his way to rescue Jerusalem. The second, Vasco De Gama.

Second[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post


Pretty darned brave to post away on a message board here in the US of A.

Thank you! You are making my point. Bash almost anyone else (Christians etc) and no-one is afraid of reprisal. Question the beliefs of the Islam and you post what you just did. "Pretty darned brave".

Why did you say that? Reprisal?

[quote]

Apparently you missed my ironic point. It is quite safe for you to sit here and bash islam. You have the opportunity to fly over to the UAE and distribute bibles, go for it. Save those poor heathens. Walk your walk. Give a try.
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:23 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
381 posts, read 1,551,041 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
First: SunshineBaby The first person I mentioned was Richard the Lion Hearted, on his way to rescue Jerusalem. The second, Vasco De Gama.
This does not change, in any way, the rest of my statement.
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Old 02-18-2007, 04:56 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,830,519 times
Reputation: 350
Why, yes it does. Your definition of what a Christian is, is yours.

Richard Coeur De Lion had his definition it was as valid as yours. The muslims took Jerusalem away from the Christians, so he was going to get it back.

De Gama sailed for Gold God and Glory, he held mass on his shipe every da, his definition of what a Christian was is as valid as yours.

To say that your definition of what a Christian is is more valid than theirs, is hubris.

Of course, the only reason Richard had to retake Jerusalem is that the Christians had previously take it from the Muslims, and by the way slaughtered everyone within the walls.

When the Crusaders arrived at Damietta, it was a thriving city of 70,000, when they left, 3,000 muslims remained alive.

The Inquisition was the way in which the Good Christians of Spain destroyed the remaining Muslims in Spain.

All these bloodthirsty Christians felt they were doing God's work, just as devoutly as you feel you are doing God's work.

Incidentally, you may be unaware of the hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims killed by men wearing the Cross, but,,,,,,,, the Muslims are not.
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:16 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
381 posts, read 1,551,041 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Why, yes it does. Your definition of what a Christian is, is yours.

Richard Coeur De Lion had his definition it was as valid as yours. The muslims took Jerusalem away from the Christians, so he was going to get it back.

De Gama sailed for Gold God and Glory, he held mass on his shipe every da, his definition of what a Christian was is as valid as yours.

To say that your definition of what a Christian is is more valid than theirs, is hubris.

Of course, the only reason Richard had to retake Jerusalem is that the Christians had previously take it from the Muslims, and by the way slaughtered everyone within the walls.

When the Crusaders arrived at Damietta, it was a thriving city of 70,000, when they left, 3,000 muslims remained alive.

The Inquisition was the way in which the Good Christians of Spain destroyed the remaining Muslims in Spain.

All these bloodthirsty Christians felt they were doing God's work, just as devoutly as you feel you are doing God's work.

Incidentally, you may be unaware of the hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims killed by men wearing the Cross, but,,,,,,,, the Muslims are not.

You're right. What I say a Christian is doesn't matter. But I am getting my information from the very source of the faith: the Bible.

John 13:35 "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

1 John 3:15 "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

Luke 6:27-36 “But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.

“But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.


It doesn't sound like Richard Coeur De Lion, De Gama, or those wearing a cross while killing Muslims fit the description.
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:31 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,830,519 times
Reputation: 350
This is of course, your interpretation, but Pope Sylvester read his scriptures too, as did Coeur De Leon and De Gama. They would argue with you, and quote scripture to back them up, same as you do.

That is the nice thing about being a Christian, you can find whatever you want in the bible to support what ever you want. And you are no more correct than the Hopi who came to this world from the fourth world to save the white man from himself.

Based on your post, if your children were the victims of violent sexual assault, you would bless the attackers, do good to them.

Have you ever cut your hair? Please remember that St. Paul cautioned women against such prideful sin as cutting their hair. He also advised that if your eye caused you to sin, you should pluck it out. Well, you haven't and he didn't.

Remember this, after all, the muslims do. For the past one thousand years muslims have been under constant attack by Christian armies. For the past 500 years there has not been a 10 year period in which Muslims have escaped attack from Christian Armies, what is happening in Iraq, is merely the latest attack.
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