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Old 02-19-2007, 09:06 PM
 
9,715 posts, read 13,335,213 times
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Quote:
Most agnostics/atheists believe in Jesus.
No they don't!!! Whatever gave you that idea??!!
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
Most haven't got a clue, they go to church because their friends are there or they grew up Catholic
And that's true of most Protestants as well, sparky.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
There was a huge difference in the Middle Ages between Catholics and Christians.
Who were these Christians in the Middle Ages who were not Catholics?


Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
2. Answer: Actually there is a very old and wonderful source called "Foxes book of Martyrs". It used to be the second best read book apart from the bible. John Paul apologized for these murders (Jews too) prior to his death, it was in the newspapers and on national T.V.
I have read Foxe's Book of Martyrs. But it was not millions. Ever. Not even the Inquisition (another blight on the Church) killed millions. Your unjust hyperbole is burying your point.

I could point you to accounts of Oliver Cromwell murdering children. He came to Connaught in Ireland and lamented that there were not enough trees to hang people.

The truth is that during certain periods of history, Catholics and Protestants have been quite nasty to one another, each other, and others. It's a sad, tragic fact, and no one group has a monopoly on virtue or vice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whitelite View Post
3. Answer: Again, your assumption is wrong. I know quite a few Catholics and have had many discussions about the scriptures. Maybe it's different in your neck of the woods, but it's almost universal everywhere I go.
I won't deny that there are a lot of ignorant, misguided Catholics. True enough. But there are a lot of ignorant, misguided Protestants, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, pagans, and atheists. A thoroughly well-informed, well-read, theologically well-versed practioner of any religion is hard to come by. It neither affirms nor rejects that particular faith.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Maine
16,573 posts, read 20,819,163 times
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Walden? You're not talking about Thoreau, are you? He was an American in the 1800s, and neither Catholic nor Protestant. He was a Transcendentalist. That's not who you meant, is it?

Are you talking about the Waldensians? They were heretics, not Christians. I know that does not in any way justify the persecution they endured, but even most Protestant theologians these days agree that the Waldensians were heretics.

But really, this is totally off topic. If you really want to discuss this, probably ought to start a new discussion. This has absolutely nothing to do with Islam.

Last edited by Jammie; 02-19-2007 at 10:33 PM.. Reason: quote removed at the request of author
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:16 AM
 
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This thread is very depressing. "Other" Christians don't feel Catholic is a Christian religion.

I think it is almost impossible for those people to understand that the Muslim religion is made up of many different kinds of groups. They don't all interpret the Quran the same way and so, they have at least as many separate sects as Christians have.

Are Mormons not Christian? Are Pentecostals not Christians? Everyone who believes in Christ is a Christian.
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:54 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
431 posts, read 310,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
No they don't!!! Whatever gave you that idea??!!

Yes, most atheists/agnostics believe in Jesus, the historical figure and that he was born and walked the Earth, but don't believe in him as "God".
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:17 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
431 posts, read 310,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
What about all the Sikhs who have been attacked in this country by Christians simply because people don't understand their religion and confuse it with Islam?
I can't find any example of a Christian physically attacking a Sikh. I find a report of an attack by an african american "gang" and one in NYC by a "41 year old white male", but nothing of any attacks by CHRISTIANS. Maybe you can provide a link??
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,930,880 times
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After 9-11, many Palestinians, Syrians, and others perceived as Muslim, were attacked in my neighbourhood---one or more were Sikh. I don't believe many of these incidents were reported. I saw the aftermath of one case where people tried to destroy the entire store-front of a shop known to be owned by Syrians. However, I don't know who the attackers were and wouldn't characterize them as Christian or non-Christian but vandals!

PS - I just did a google search - over 1M reports of attacks on Muslims! - perhaps you'll find one or more that fulfill your link request.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittle View Post
I can't find any example of a Christian physically attacking a Sikh. I find a report of an attack by an african american "gang" and one in NYC by a "41 year old white male", but nothing of any attacks by CHRISTIANS. Maybe you can provide a link??

Last edited by ontheroad; 02-20-2007 at 05:15 PM..
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:38 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 925,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
This thread is very depressing. "Other" Christians don't feel Catholic is a Christian religion.

I think it is almost impossible for those people to understand that the Muslim religion is made up of many different kinds of groups. They don't all interpret the Quran the same way and so, they have at least as many separate sects as Christians have.

Are Mormons not Christian? Are Pentecostals not Christians? Everyone who believes in Christ is a Christian.
With ya on the depressing!! It's amazing all the different Christian religions denying each other but, some do choose to not do certain things that brings a outcast to Christianity. I have heard other Christians call the Catholics & Mormons cults. So, I am seeing that Muslims might have the same problem. No wonder we are all not getting along!!!
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:00 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,831,408 times
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Quote:
I went to bootcamp in 1981 in San Diego. It was darn hot on those grinders and a lot of us went to church just because it offered us a chance to get into an air-conditioned space and then have a few minutes to smoke after we left. No one forced us to, we went because it was a way to get away from the bootcamp regulations for an hour or two without breaking rules.
I was a few years ahead of you, but the services were outside on bleachers, there wasn't a building on base that could have handled everyone. We all marched off to church, split up between the Protestants, Catholics, and Mormons, there was no option.

Ah, the wierd Church, Calvary Baptist of Santa Maria, CA Pretty cool don't you think, a baptist church with the name of a saint. I like that, shows real togetherness.
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Small patch of terra firma
1,275 posts, read 2,167,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pittle View Post
Most agnostics/atheists believe in Jesus. Does that make them a Christian? No! Believing that Jesus was a man and walked the Earth is a lot different than believing Jesus is the Son of God and was sent to Earth to die for our sins. Your logic is flawed, in my opinion.
Actually if you read UB50ís statement and understand his words, you would see they were very specific when he stated

Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
Catholics believe in Jesus Christ. That makes them Christians.
It was very specific to Jesus the Messiah. As in Jesus, the son of God.

Your argument referring to Jesus regarding Atheist/Agnostic beliefs is not similar since youíre referring to Jesus as a person, which is entirely different from Jesus as Messiah.

Nice strawman argument though. I might have missed it if I didnít read UB50ís own statement. You might want to take the time to understand if you take key words out that you do change the intent of the statement. Or did you already know that?
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