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Old 01-30-2012, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
21,182 posts, read 15,340,507 times
Reputation: 11848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I think overall, as a nation, through a combination of reasons, we tend to invest more money in our worst then in our best. When I was in high school, the district had to pay out over $200k a year for a specialized teacher, transportation and equipment for a girl with Downs Syndrome, who only interacted with other students in a limited capacity during gym class. At the same time, the school was struggling with funding for the Advanced Placement program that was affording the best students to earn college credits while in high school and give them a leg up. The cost to care for(sorry, I can't use the word educate there) the girl in question would have allowed the school to almost double the existing AP program versus cutting it. Of course, educating a girl with Downs Syndrome is something a public school must do and at the school if the parents insist on "mainstreaming" and the school can't find a very compelling argument not to, offering the best and brightest AP classes isn't.

I won't argue the finer points of all that, just point out that most schools invest drastically more money per pupil into the "worst" then they do into the "best", that's a foolish system, IMO. For that reason things like TAG programs take on a different meaning and grow in importance. It's often the ONE benefit the better students may get.
I agree and I think that it one of the many reasons that parents have to push in the other direction.
As was also noted, there is a perception that if one's child is not performing well in school, it is the direct result of lack of parental involvement, etc. but, ironically when parents are 'over-involved' that is also perceived as 'bad.'
I don't know what the overall happy medium would be, however, I cannot fault any parent for wanting their child to get a satisfactory education wherever they fall on the spectrum.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:18 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,218,193 times
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Of all the students in one public school, only a handful are actually "gifted", around 5%. Being gifted DOES NOT mean getting good grades, having the ability to study well, being the best football player or being a teachers kid. Being "gifted" means that the child was BORN with an ability higher than other students in their age range. Our schools g/t program is above 10% of our student body. I about fainted when I saw those numbers. What is hilarious is that, while my son is not in g/t, his apptitude test scores were high enough for him to be selected to take the SAT's in the 7th grade. Sure I let him....to gain the experience and nothing more. I did not expect him to score that all exhaulted perfect score on the SAT. He had fun, saw what it was like and knows what to expect later on. The kids in his class who are in g/t (5 out of 13 students) were not selected to take the SAT. These kids get awesome grades, are at the top of the honor roll every quarter and are in g/t because of what? Good grades? A lot of the students in the Resource Room or kids that are considered LD have good grades too yet they are not tested for g/t. I will tell you that all but ONE of our teachers children are part of the g/t program. In a town as small as ours (less than 2000), the mentality of the parents whose children are in g/t is absurd. They act as if their children are too good to play with the "other kids". It was not like this before g/t came to our school. G/T has done nothing more than divide a town into two seperate classes.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,840,981 times
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Hmm, seems to me many posting here don't know the difference between "gifted" and "advanced" or "above average".
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:27 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,218,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I think overall, as a nation, through a combination of reasons, we tend to invest more money in our worst then in our best. When I was in high school, the district had to pay out over $200k a year for a specialized teacher, transportation and equipment for a girl with Downs Syndrome, who only interacted with other students in a limited capacity during gym class. At the same time, the school was struggling with funding for the Advanced Placement program that was affording the best students to earn college credits while in high school and give them a leg up. The cost to care for(sorry, I can't use the word educate there) the girl in question would have allowed the school to almost double the existing AP program versus cutting it. Of course, educating a girl with Downs Syndrome is something a public school must do and at the school if the parents insist on "mainstreaming" and the school can't find a very compelling argument not to, offering the best and brightest AP classes isn't.

I won't argue the finer points of all that, just point out that most schools invest drastically more money per pupil into the "worst" then they do into the "best", that's a foolish system, IMO. For that reason things like TAG programs take on a different meaning and grow in importance. It's often the ONE benefit the better students may get.
Gifted/Talented or Agate is now required in public schools, at least here in Montana it is. Our resource room/ld department is lacking while our G/T program is thriving. I would guess that it is in part, due to so many teachers children being in the program.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:30 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,218,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Hmm, seems to me many posting here don't know the difference between "gifted" and "advanced" or "above average".

You are right, there is a big difference between the three. No wonder parents get confused with all the different labels. Being gifted means being born with the ability. It is not learned, while the other two can be either way. I venture to say more "above average" or "advanced" students are placed in G/T anyways which totally defeats the purpose of the program.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,401 posts, read 9,582,254 times
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Bragging is bragging no matter what it's about. Gifted, sports, beauty contest, academics. I know plenty braggers in all categories. Some brag some don't.
The same goes for parents who cut down others all the time. Nobody likes them either. When ever you have a team sport or activity and a few are on top you have a handful of others on the bottom that don't think it's fair that they are there.
Gifted does not mean the same thing anymore, it's just a name attached to programs. Most parents in these programs are aware of this and their kids do seem to work harder at most things than average. So, it really means a kid who goes beyond the normal work load to me. Those are really ethics taught.

Gifted kids parents are no different than any other parent, you have some of all in the group. Kids are generally tested so parents can't influence unless they can teach their child more and in that case great.

With the education boom as of late and the bad economy and cost of college, a lot of parents need scholarships for their kids, they see education as a more important part of their kids lives now. Isn't that what everyone wanted? I can see why more parents are trying harder but bragging about it isn't the best thing. Yet, either is complaining about it. They sort of fall into the same category to me.

On one side you have, wow, my Sally is great and on the other side you have, wow, I hate Sally, she's not that great. lol Same thing really, I find both displeasing but what can you do? People are people.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,840,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Bragging is bragging no matter what it's about. Gifted, sports, beauty contest, academics. I know plenty braggers in all categories. Some brag some don't.
The same goes for parents who cut down others all the time. Nobody likes them either. When ever you have a team sport or activity and a few are on top you have a handful of others on the bottom that don't think it's fair that they are there.
Gifted does not mean the same thing anymore, it's just a name attached to programs. Most parents in these programs are aware of this and their kids do seem to work harder at most things than average. So, it really means a kid who goes beyond the normal work load to me. Those are really ethics taught.

Gifted kids parents are no different than any other parent, you have some of all in the group. Kids are generally tested so parents can't influence unless they can teach their child more and in that case great.
With regard to actual "gifted" children, I have never heard a parent discuss this fact, unless it is in a very specific environment. Now as for the above average student parents, yeah, I hear it a lot, especially with regard to reading ability.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:52 PM
 
1,677 posts, read 1,975,804 times
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I think that most parents understand that "gifted" programs don't mean their child is a genius. All it really means is a child that is an above the average learner compared with children their own age. There are people that act like GT programs are like Mensa, but it's only a program to give kids who need it more of a challenge. Whether my kid is smart, average, or learning disabled, I would want her to get the best education available to her, and I really think that's all it boils down to.

There are negative attitudes from both sides of the issue imo. There are parents of smart children who feel their child is too good for the world, and there are parents of average kids who turn up their nose at GT children, automatically assuming that they MUST think they're better than everyone else. It's no different from any other stereotype that there is. When you know someone personally who behaves this way, apply that thought to THEM and them alone.

I think a lot of people forget that parenting isn't a contest, it's about doing what is best for your child. I know there are a LOT of competitive parents out there, and with that comes a lot of nastiness and negativity. People need to focus on their own kids and quit worrying about what the neighbors kids are doing.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,236,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaNomus View Post
I think that most parents understand that "gifted" programs don't mean their child is a genius. All it really means is a child that is an above the average learner compared with children their own age. There are people that act like GT programs are like Mensa, but it's only a program to give kids who need it more of a challenge. Whether my kid is smart, average, or learning disabled, I would want her to get the best education available to her, and I really think that's all it boils down to.

There are negative attitudes from both sides of the issue imo. There are parents of smart children who feel their child is too good for the world, and there are parents of average kids who turn up their nose at GT children, automatically assuming that they MUST think they're better than everyone else. It's no different from any other stereotype that there is. When you know someone personally who behaves this way, apply that thought to THEM and them alone.

I think a lot of people forget that parenting isn't a contest, it's about doing what is best for your child. I know there are a LOT of competitive parents out there, and with that comes a lot of nastiness and negativity. People need to focus on their own kids and quit worrying about what the neighbors kids are doing.

This is worth reading a second time. Truer words were never said, IMO.
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:03 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,463,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
This is worth reading a second time. Truer words were never said, IMO.
Yes. Great post. (I have to spread the love around again, Anna. Boo. Hiss.)
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