Protesters Closed 16th Street At I-10 This Afternoon. Complete Idiocy (Scottsdale: community college, legal)

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark

I think that's a real concern for the left. I think many of the people who voted for Trump really enjoy liberal outrage. Some people like the OP get really ticked off or take it personally, but a lot of other people really enjoy it ... they think it's hilarious. It's schadenfreude, I guess.

As for me, I guess it's kind of like the early years of the last few Presidents' terms...the constant protesting and outrage and so forth...I just get bored with it. I voted, I pay attention, but I don't need to be consuming the daily cycle of outrage that seems to be breathlessly perpetuated by one group or another no matter what happens or who's in power.

In terms of AZ relevance...until the AZ Dems can mobilize potential voters to vote and turn this state's "purple" demographics into anything but a blood-red state government...I don't know how relevant any protest is. None of it matters until the liberals get people to the polls.

It's a very bad persuasion game. You can influence liberals by shaming, mocking, "my facts are better than yours" rhetoric but you will reach zero Trump supporters. Unless the left comes up with a better and different persuasion game they have zero chances at elections. If anything you get Trump supporters more fired up with this nonsense. Have we learned nothing from the last Presidential elections? So far the Democrats are not only out of touch with voters but with reality itself. So much for being your own worst enemy. To be persuasive to Trump voters you can appeal to nationalism / self-interest for example or economic fairness, many other things. Instead they do this and "I'm a muslim too". How often can you shoot your own foot?

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

It's a very bad persuasion game. You can influence liberals by shaming, mocking, "my facts are better than yours" rhetoric but you will reach zero Trump supporters. Unless the left comes up with a better and different persuasion game they have zero chances at elections. If anything you get Trump supporters more fired up with this nonsense. Have we learned nothing from the last Presidential elections? So far the Democrats are not only out of touch with voters but with reality itself. So much for being your own worst enemy. To be persuasive to Trump voters you can appeal to nationalism / self-interest for example or economic fairness, many other things. Instead they do this and "I'm a muslim too". How often can you shoot your own foot?

I'm wondering what those "I'm a muslim too" people might say/do if/when the next serious Allahu Akbar mass murder terror event takes place in the U.S. (or elsewhere for that matter) and (heaven forbid) their friends or relatives are impacted...

Will they be "Muslim too" then?

[pbenjamin]

The protests and demonstrations are not about influencing people who are supporting Trump. They are about energizing the people who are opposed. Much like the so-called tea party started invading town halls etc. in the first days of the Obama administration, the idea is to get some sort of coherent movement going that would have an impact on upcoming elections. The wingnuts managed to do that in the 2010 election. Time will tell whether that will work out for the other side in 2018.

[cactusland]

Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark

I think that's a real concern for the left. I think many of the people who voted for Trump really enjoy liberal outrage. Some people like the OP get really ticked off or take it personally, but a lot of other people really enjoy it ... they think it's hilarious. It's schadenfreude, I guess.

I disagree that its schadenfreude. One only needs to look at the state of inner America vs the large groupthink of its outer cities to understand why the poorest counties of the USA voted for Trump. They're not doing it because they think its hilarious, they're mad as hell, and the ones that are laughing are laughing because they literally have nothing left to lose and don't care anymore.
The left doesn't seem concerned enough to do any deep reflection into why they lost - and they will keep losing the next five elections unless they start right now. However they are still playing into essentially emotional blackmail and consequently discussions have devolved into argument. They want to blame everyone but themselves for their loss but many of them cannot be arsed to get to the polls to vote.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

It's a very bad persuasion game. You can influence liberals by shaming, mocking, "my facts are better than yours" rhetoric but you will reach zero Trump supporters. Unless the left comes up with a better and different persuasion game they have zero chances at elections. If anything you get Trump supporters more fired up with this nonsense. Have we learned nothing from the last Presidential elections? So far the Democrats are not only out of touch with voters but with reality itself. So much for being your own worst enemy. To be persuasive to Trump voters you can appeal to nationalism / self-interest for example or economic fairness, many other things. Instead they do this and "I'm a muslim too". How often can you shoot your own foot?

I'm not so sure. I think we forget that people don't always vote based on the issues. Hillary Clinton is very unpopular and always has been going back to her days as first lady. Many view her as an elitist snob that is unrelatable. I'm not surprised she lost. When Obama ran, he rolled up his sleeves and had beer with locals in rural areas and was much more relatable. People didn't view Hillary the same way. Even Trump said Bernie would have given him more of a challenge and Bernie probably would have beaten him.

The other reason she lost is she was seen as another Wall Street puppet. She really didn't address jobs and ways to retain more jobs in the U.S. Hillary almost seemed to be pandering to all the companies outsourcing jobs overseas and was a part of that machine. Democrats are usually seen as fighting for the middle class but she almost came across as a Republican in this way.

The Democrats will be smarter next time and choose a candidate who is much more liked on a personal level the way Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by cactusland

I disagree that its schadenfreude. One only needs to look at the state of inner America vs the large groupthink of its outer cities to understand why the poorest counties of the USA voted for Trump. They're not doing it because they think its hilarious, they're mad as hell, and the ones that are laughing are laughing because they literally have nothing left to lose and don't care anymore.
The left doesn't seem concerned enough to do any deep reflection into why they lost - and they will keep losing the next five elections unless they start right now. However they are still playing into essentially emotional blackmail and consequently discussions have devolved into argument. They want to blame everyone but themselves for their loss but many of them cannot be arsed to get to the polls to vote.

Agreed, I think it came down to jobs. They may not like Trump but if he can keep a factory in their town from leaving, that's all they care about. A lot of working class and minorities voted for Trump for this reason.

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

It's funny how these people will spend hours protesting but not voting

Who can blame them!! They remember well the 2000 Presidential election results!! And they'll never forget the Presidential election results of 2016!!! So why vote when the popular vote is meaningless!!!

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

The protests and demonstrations are not about influencing people who are supporting Trump. They are about energizing the people who are opposed. Much like the so-called tea party started invading town halls etc. in the first days of the Obama administration, the idea is to get some sort of coherent movement going that would have an impact on upcoming elections. The wingnuts managed to do that in the 2010 election. Time will tell whether that will work out for the other side in 2018.

I think that's an illusion. The Tea Party / alt right / Trump movement was persuading traditionally Democrat working class people from the get-go. That was actually one of their main goals and their persuasion game was very effective by appealing to their patriotism, localism, nativism among other things. This is how they took them over.
If you start a movement, make it appeal to the other side. There's no reason in starting a movement that's preaching to the choir AND alienating the other side even more. It makes it worse. Look at Labour in the UK right now, they returned to ideological purity (Corbyn) thereby making everything worse for themselves. I'm afraid the same thing will happen to the Democratic party here. Very frustrating for an old Democrat like me to see the party self-destruct.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by tijlover

Who can blame them!! They remember well the 2000 Presidential election results!! And they'll never forget the Presidential election results of 2016!!! So why vote when the popular vote is meaningless!!!

Because Arizona was decided by less than 100k votes and was the last state called due to how close the vote was here

Trump won by barely squeaking by in the Midwest something like 80k votes.

80k strategic votes is all that separated this election.

[wase4711]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

Because Arizona was decided by less than 100k votes and was the last state called due to how close the vote was here

Trump won by barely squeaking by in the Midwest something like 80k votes.

80k strategic votes is all that separated this election.

sorry, but you need some fact checking

Popular Vote Results: Trump Would Have Won by 3 Million Without California or New York

take away California and she got whipped, then remove the nut jobs in New York and she was slaughtered

the reality is, most of this country couldnt stand the thought of EITHER of them winning, they just felt they hated Him less than they hated her...