Phoenix's heat and the stupidity that goes with it (Chandler: university, rooftop)

[johnp292]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Heat sparks multiple mountain rescues around Phoenix area - Arizona's Family

More idiots hiking in the heat, becoming injured, dehydrated, or disoriented, and having to be rescued. Wasting tax money and wasting paramedics' time to save a bunch of bozos who caused their own problems, when the paramedics can & should be attending to REAL emergencies. My question is: why hike in the heat? In fact, what's the big thrill of hiking in the Phoenix area "mountains" when there are so many cooler, prettier, and less crowded hiking spots in northern & eastern AZ?!

Several years ago, I and many others called for a Stupid Hiker Law to be passed ... however, anymore I'm not so sure this would be very effective. What should be done instead is to simply put signs on the entrances to the hiking trails stating: SOCIAL DARWINISM BEGINS HERE, HIKE AT YOUR OWN RISK. There should be absolutely no rescues. If somebody is too inexperienced and ignorant to understand the risks, especially in these extreme temperatures, then too bad. Let the coyotes have them as a snack!

So...using that logic...should the overweight not get paramedic service when they have a heart attack?

Should someone with speeding tickets not get extricated from a car wreck?

Should an inexperienced skier not get help from the Ski Patrol if he gets injured?

Should a jaywalker who gets hit by a car be left in the street for the coyotes?


I think we’ve had this debate before but to make my point again...I worked in street EMS for around 17 years. We rescue anyone without making judgments. We may privately shake our heads at stupidity afterwards, but we don’t think twice about doing it again. And that’s a good thing for everyone.

I’m also not a big fan of “Stupid xxxxx” laws. While they may be satisfying to armchair quarterbacks, the unintended consequence of such laws are that they frighten people who may need emergency services from calling for them, because they worry that they may get sued, criminally charged, billed, or publicly shamed even when the law may not apply in their situation.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by johnp292

So...using that logic...should the overweight not get paramedic service when they have a heart attack?

Should someone with speeding tickets not get extricated from a car wreck?

Should an inexperienced skier not get help from the Ski Patrol if he gets injured?

Should a jaywalker who gets hit by a car be left in the street for the coyotes?


I think we’ve had this debate before but to make my point again...I worked in street EMS for around 17 years. We rescue anyone without making judgments. We may privately shake our heads at stupidity afterwards, but we don’t think twice about doing it again. And that’s a good thing for everyone.

I’m also not a big fan of “Stupid xxxxx” laws. While they may be satisfying to armchair quarterbacks, the unintended consequence of such laws are that they frighten people who may need emergency services from calling for them, because they worry that they may get sued, criminally charged, billed, or publicly shamed even when the law may not apply in their situation.

Well said, I think more positive messages is the route to take not trying to belittle every person that makes a mistake, we’re all human and make bad decisions some times, dying for a single bad mistake is a helluva penalty for something any one of us could experience at some point.

I’ve given water, directions and even used my phone to help people out I’ve run across on the trails who are clearly in over their heads. More education, signage and maybe even closing trails when temps reach certain extreme levels is the better route to go here.

Thank you for your EMS work and 99% of us are thankful you have the attitude written above.

[SoHoVe]

I don't know about the "snowbird" label being entirely correct but it IS almost always day hikers who find themselves in trouble. They go out thinking they will only be hiking a short while and feel any sort of preparation is unnecessary.

To insinuate these people need to be left out there to die is pretty callous though. It's an honest mistake and we've all done something stupid at one time or another that has put our own life and perhaps even the lives of others in jeopardy...it happens.

Being stuck out in the desert in hot weather with no resources IS a legitimate emergency.

Trail closures during summer months do pose an inconvenience for the people prepared properly to hike them but it's proven pretty effective around Las Vegas in cutting down on the deaths. Probably not at all a bad idea idea few specific trails are proving to be problematic as was the case at Lake Mead NRA.

[ihatetodust]

They should close the trails in summer.

[locolobo13]

If you are pushing your limits sometimes you are over the line. I heard there were 5 heat related rescues Sunday. Sunday was "Silent Sunday" at South Mountain Park. I didn't ride to the top but several cyclists did. There were dozens of cyclists, a few joggers. The hikers were harder to see from the pavement. But they were there. There were probably hundreds of people hiking the valley hills Sunday.

It was hot. But I got some good shots of beetles and cicadas. I enjoyed my ride Sunday morning.

Personally I'm glad there is a service to help people who push too far. It's no worse than rescuing someone who drinks too much. Or as others have pointed out, help those whose inactivity has led to health problems.

[Colt AZ]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Heat sparks multiple mountain rescues around Phoenix area - Arizona's Family

More idiots hiking in the heat, becoming injured, dehydrated, or disoriented, and having to be rescued. Wasting tax money and wasting paramedics' time to save a bunch of bozos who caused their own problems, when the paramedics can & should be attending to REAL emergencies. My question is: why hike in the heat? In fact, what's the big thrill of hiking in the Phoenix area "mountains" when there are so many cooler, prettier, and less crowded hiking spots in northern & eastern AZ?!

Several years ago, I and many others called for a Stupid Hiker Law to be passed ... however, anymore I'm not so sure this would be very effective. What should be done instead is to simply put signs on the entrances to the hiking trails stating: SOCIAL DARWINISM BEGINS HERE, HIKE AT YOUR OWN RISK. There should be absolutely no rescues. If somebody is too inexperienced and ignorant to understand the risks, especially in these extreme temperatures, then too bad. Let the coyotes have them as a snack!

Yep. I was one of those back then who agreed with having a Stupid Hiker Law. I still agree with the idea of someone needing to pay for the cost of their own rescue. Not that people who hike are stupid, but that there are people who will willingly disobey signs -- even if/when signs or barricades are there.

Seems to me that Arizona's Stupid Motorist Law works. Again, these are people who willingly disobey signs and barricades.

If people are offended by the word "STUPID", then the word could be changed to DISOBEDIENT Motorist (or Hiker) Law. No problem there.

[fluffythewondercat]

Originally Posted by Colt AZ

Yep. I was one of those back then who agreed with having a Stupid Hiker Law. I still agree with the idea of someone needing to pay for the cost of their own rescue. Not that people who hike are stupid, but that there are people who will willingly disobey signs -- even if/when signs or barricades are there.

Seems to me that Arizona's Stupid Motorist Law works. Again, these are people who willingly disobey signs and barricades.

If people are offended by the word "STUPID", then the word could be changed to DISOBEDIENT Motorist (or Hiker) Law. No problem there.

No, keep the word "STUPID". It draws attention.


I'm sure that if a hiker is fined under the Stupid Hiker Law, the oh-so-caring and compassionate ones will chip in on his GoFundMe page.

[Colt AZ]

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

No, keep the word "STUPID". It draws attention.


I'm sure that if a hiker is fined under the Stupid Hiker Law, the oh-so-caring and compassionate ones will chip in on his GoFundMe page.

Ok.

[wase4711]

Well, anyone can make this mistake one time, and, they shouldn't be left to die if its their first time, and they learn their lesson..
Repeat offenders? Well, that's an entirely different story, and if you get rescued more than once, their should be some sort of consequences, IMO..

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by locolife

Well said, I think more positive messages is the route to take not trying to belittle every person that makes a mistake, we’re all human and make bad decisions some times, dying for a single bad mistake is a helluva penalty for something any one of us could experience at some point.

Saying that this is a mistake any of us could experience is not quite true because nobody is forcing anybody to venture out on the trails. Simply stay out of the heat and occupy yourself with less strenuous activities during the summer months. Why is this so difficult to comprehend? We don't need to be wasting tax money on rescuing these bottom feeders who are unwilling or unable to grasp basic common sense.

Originally Posted by locolife

More education, signage and maybe even closing trails when temps reach certain extreme levels is the better route to go here.

Yes, the education should be on the signage: HIKE AT YOUR OWN RISK, PARAMEDICS NOT ON DUTY. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST BEGINS AT THIS POINT. It's basically the same concept if you use the pool at a fitness center ... there are signs that say: SWIM AT YOUR OWN RISK, NO LIFEGUARD ON DUTY. Also, do you really believe closing the trails will be all that effective? The same bozos can easily maneuver around the closures, and then we're back to the same old situation.