Pitt Applies for membership in ACC (Wyoming, Atlantic: 2014, rankings, deal)
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The ACC is at a considerable disadvantage due to the incompetence of the Tobacco road leadership.
The ACC is set on utilizing the Big East's model for expansion: TV sets and basketball. Unfortunately they haven't figured out that it doesn't matter how many tv sets are within your team's viewing area if no one is tuning in.
ACC football just isn't a product that sells well, and football pays the bills. The emphasis on basketball while neglecting the cash cow product will eventually cause the deterioration of the conference because the other BCS conferences can cherry pick the football schools at will. All of this would be moot of course had FSU and Miami not fallen off of the grid in the early part of the last decade.
That is the reason that FSU and Clemson are potentially considering Big 12 membership. Not an increase of $2.9 million or more, but because of the future stability of emphasizing the sport that they draw their revenue from.
....and to the guy who posted the comments from the FSU president: What he failed to mention about the schools that left the big 12 is that they all voted AGAINST equal distribution of revenue to keep a bigger share of the pie for themselves. Mizzouri, Nebraska, A&M..All of them. Not only that but the previous unequal distribution has been effectively nullified to where it isn't a supposed issue like it once was.
You mention Pitt and it's urban setting, yet most of the Big12 schools are located in places that make Altoona look cosmopolitan.
Same with ACC schools...
They are not known for being urban. You ever been to UT? It is right by downtown Austin.
Who cares about the setting? Pitt has much more in common with the down to earth, commom man, schools of the Big 12 than the old money slaver traders of tobacco road. The Big 12 may look down on Pitt for its bad athletics, but if it became good it would get respect. Tobacco road is never going to respect Pitt.
The Big 12 may not be the best fit, but it is no worse than the ACC. In the end it doesnt matter. What matters is the sports and the money. ACC is good at basketball, and that is all.
The ACC is at a considerable disadvantage due to the incompetence of the Tobacco road leadership.
The ACC is set on utilizing the Big East's model for expansion: TV sets and basketball. Unfortunately they haven't figured out that it doesn't matter how many tv sets are within your team's viewing area if no one is tuning in.
ACC football just isn't a product that sells well, and football pays the bills. The emphasis on basketball while neglecting the cash cow product will eventually cause the deterioration of the conference because the other BCS conferences can cherry pick the football schools at will. All of this would be moot of course had FSU and Miami not fallen off of the grid in the early part of the last decade.
That is the reason that FSU and Clemson are potentially considering Big 12 membership. Not an increase of $2.9 million or more, but because of the future stability of emphasizing the sport that they draw their revenue from.
....and to the guy who posted the comments from the FSU president: What he failed to mention about the schools that left the big 12 is that they all voted AGAINST equal distribution of revenue to keep a bigger share of the pie for themselves. Mizzouri, Nebraska, A&M..All of them. Not only that but the previous unequal distribution has been effectively nullified to where it isn't a supposed issue like it once was.
Yes, the ACC expansion of BC, VT, and Miami was supposed to turn the ACC into a powerhouse football conference. It never happened, and all the teams suffered. Blame tobacco road.
I used to live in Texas and UT and A&M hate each other. Not just in sports. The alumnis dont hold each other in high regards, especially the Aggies. Ive attended committee meetings where A&M would complain that UT got too much and they didnt get anything, while UT would argue A&M got too much. They were rivals in all aspects, and like I said not just sports. A&M left because they hated UT, and UT called the shots. UT would have left if the position was revised. They are like Sunnis and Shias. Give them enough time and they will fight.
The ACC made the same mistakes the Big E made. Too much emphasis on basketball, especially from snobby elite schools, while neglecting the football schools. Too much focus on potential market share, and not enough on actual performance. The big E is like the conference USA now, and the ACC is like the old BE. This was not supposed to have happened but it did.
ACC is a basketball conference, period! Don't expect Pitt to be a national football power......not when Miami and Florida State stand in the way.
Pitt doesn't have the resources to be a consistent power in football. They would get crushed trying to play in the Big12. Pitt can have spurts here and there like they did 35 years ago, but they haven't been a consistent power since the 1930's.
Yes, the trustees are, and they are all for the Big 12.
FSU has declared its intentions. At this point them and the Big 12 need to work out a deal. If the Big 12 wants them than it will get them. Im sorry, but you are in denial of this fact. FSU is careful not to burn its bridges, since the Big 12 may reject them for a stronger football program. Also, the Big 12 may not be expanding right now. So the biggest hope for the ACC is that the Big 12 will reject them, but even then other conferences will poach the good football teams in the ACC. There is literally nothing the ACC can do, unless they can get ESPN to revise their contracts, which is already very generous to the ACC.
If the Big 12 would take Pitt I imagine they would jump at the opportunity too.
makes no sense. 'if' the big 12 wants them? they took TCU and WVU, of course they want them (and about 8 other ACC schools).
ACC didn't destroy FSU football. FSU has just sucked. Same with Miami, they destroyed themselves.
At least Miami knows better than to cry about the football contract when it was them and FSU that let the conference down.
What could Swofford to, go into negotiations with ESPN touting the fact that Wake Forest beats FSU every year? That yes, FSU was in a BCS bowl 7 years ago and in fact were the only 5-loss team to ever do it.
Duke, UNC, Wake, Maryland.. their job is basketball. Football from them is just icing on the cake. For the most part they have done their job.
FSU, Miami, Clemson..their job is the football side and they have failed miserably. Yeah its the North Carolina schools fault that FSU takes top 5 recruiting classes every year and gets curbstomped by USF.. then wonders why they can't get SEC money when the only thing even keeping them BCS eligible is the fact Virginia's gov't demanded VTech get in the conference.
It is more than $2.9 million when you take 3rd tier rights into consideration. For a school like FSU it could mean $5 million more per year, and for a school like Pitt $4 million.
I dont believe Pitt was considered for Big 12 membership, nor SEC membership. It is about money, but you have to play decent football too. Pitt has been awful the last few years and I am sure if they improved they would get considered for Big 12 membership.
FSU is kinda mixed. They were once really good, but every since joining the ACC they have been merely ok. There is a lot of potential for them to become good, but they havent done real well. What FSU has is a big fanbase and access to the FLorida market.
ND is a goldmine. They dont deserve to be based on their athletics, but lots of American catholics love ND for its religious affiliations. For that reason it has fans and supporters across the country. If it were a secular liberal arts school, based solely on sports, it would not be nearly as popular. I mean ND did have its sports golden age, but that is long past and its unwillingness to join a conference is hurting their sports. They can remain independent, but it is going to be more and more costly. There are less non-conference games in the upcoming schedules, and they are not going to get to play all the schools they want, and will make less money. At some point they will need to declare a conference.
The reason the ACC moved so fast is the fact that Pitt was the big 12's main target. They were trying to work it so WVU would come with them, but WVU was waiting for an SEC invite which never came. The ACC was forced to move faster because the B12's interest in Pitt. Obviously Pitt preferred the ACC.
Contrary to internet rumors, the big 12 would add almost any of the ACC teams right now if they came and asked. The acc would want none of the b12 teams (texas if they played fair, and oklahoma if they came alone..but neither would happen, or they'd be in the PAC/SEC already)
Every team that had another option left the big 12.
AS far as the 3rd tier rights, most people talking about them have no idea what they are talking about. UNC makes over 11 million per year in what the b12 is calling 3rd tier rights. FSU made 6.6 million last year. what they would get in the big 12 is maybe 1 million more for the 1 worst football game that fox/espn does not want to air, and a couple basketball games against teams like slippery rock or robert morris.
As far as Pitt being 'awful the last few years' I'm sure most pitt fans want to do better. But they have finished in the top 20 of final BCS rankings 2 times in the last 4 years. for comparison, WVU onlyl has once. That isn't exactly awful.
and i really don't mean to harp on you personally, but you are saying a lot of off the wall things i wanted to address. 'widely speculated' that BC is going to the big 10? what? where? No one thinks BC is going to the big 10, it makes about as much sense as a football bat. Notre Dame wants BC? no they dont. They play them a fair ammount, (~20 games all time) but if thats the case, they would want pitt(64 games) 3 times as much, and navy(their most played opponent) even more. No one cares about BC, not even the ACC.
The b1g would take almost anyone in the ACC and even a couple out of the b12 or SEC before they would ever consider BC or UCONN.
As far as that list from FSU, its pretty clear what he is saying. "The big 12 makes no sense and they are not interested, but the SEC makes a lot of sense and they would like to be invited" .and you can't blame them.
makes no sense. 'if' the big 12 wants them? they took TCU and WVU, of course they want them (and about 8 other ACC schools).
ACC didn't destroy FSU football. FSU has just sucked. Same with Miami, they destroyed themselves.
At least Miami knows better than to cry about the football contract when it was them and FSU that let the conference down.
What could Swofford to, go into negotiations with ESPN touting the fact that Wake Forest beats FSU every year? That yes, FSU was in a BCS bowl 7 years ago and in fact were the only 5-loss team to ever do it.
Duke, UNC, Wake, Maryland.. their job is basketball. Football from them is just icing on the cake. For the most part they have done their job.
FSU, Miami, Clemson..their job is the football side and they have failed miserably. Yeah its the North Carolina schools fault that FSU takes top 5 recruiting classes every year and gets curbstomped by USF.. then wonders why they can't get SEC money when the only thing even keeping them BCS eligible is the fact Virginia's gov't demanded VTech get in the conference.
WVU and TCU are good at football, and WVU crushed Clemson showing that even the Big East is MUCH better than the ACC at football.
The ACC really needs to find a way to improve its football.
The reason the ACC moved so fast is the fact that Pitt was the big 12's main target. They were trying to work it so WVU would come with them, but WVU was waiting for an SEC invite which never came. The ACC was forced to move faster because the B12's interest in Pitt. Obviously Pitt preferred the ACC.
Contrary to internet rumors, the big 12 would add almost any of the ACC teams right now if they came and asked. The acc would want none of the b12 teams (texas if they played fair, and oklahoma if they came alone..but neither would happen, or they'd be in the PAC/SEC already)
Every team that had another option left the big 12.
AS far as the 3rd tier rights, most people talking about them have no idea what they are talking about. UNC makes over 11 million per year in what the b12 is calling 3rd tier rights. FSU made 6.6 million last year. what they would get in the big 12 is maybe 1 million more for the 1 worst football game that fox/espn does not want to air, and a couple basketball games against teams like slippery rock or robert morris.
As far as Pitt being 'awful the last few years' I'm sure most pitt fans want to do better. But they have finished in the top 20 of final BCS rankings 2 times in the last 4 years. for comparison, WVU onlyl has once. That isn't exactly awful.
and i really don't mean to harp on you personally, but you are saying a lot of off the wall things i wanted to address. 'widely speculated' that BC is going to the big 10? what? where? No one thinks BC is going to the big 10, it makes about as much sense as a football bat. Notre Dame wants BC? no they dont. They play them a fair ammount, (~20 games all time) but if thats the case, they would want pitt(64 games) 3 times as much, and navy(their most played opponent) even more. No one cares about BC, not even the ACC.
The b1g would take almost anyone in the ACC and even a couple out of the b12 or SEC before they would ever consider BC or UCONN.
As far as that list from FSU, its pretty clear what he is saying. "The big 12 makes no sense and they are not interested, but the SEC makes a lot of sense and they would like to be invited" .and you can't blame them.
For off the SEC doesnt want FSU anymore. It did at one point, but FSU turned them down, and are now kicking themselves.
The Big 12 and the Big 10 dont want just any ACC team. Most ACC teams would drag them down. They want the good football schools.
Im sorry but Pitt is terrible at football. Nowhere near on the same level as WVU, which crushed the ACC, and crushed Pitt in both Basketball and Football.
The Big 10 might not want BC, but ND wants them, and to get ND they would accept BC.
Right now the only place to expand is the ACC. The Big 12 teams signed away their tier I & II rights, to the Big 12 even if they leave the conference the Big 12 still gets the revenue. This makes leaving almost impossible. The Big 10, SEC, and Big 12 are now forced to snatch up the ACC teams.
As, you said, or another poster blame Tobacco road. The ACC had the opportunity to become a good football conference, but was never able to do so. Now that the Big E is practically over, the ACC is the least respected football conference and the vultures are circling around it.
The reason the ACC moved so fast is the fact that Pitt was the big 12's main target. They were trying to work it so WVU would come with them, but WVU was waiting for an SEC invite which never came. The ACC was forced to move faster because the B12's interest in Pitt. Obviously Pitt preferred the ACC.
The reason Pitt is going to the ACC is because Boston College AD Gene DeFillippo vetoed UConn.
Syracuse and UConn were the preferred two choices, in that order. This is well documented. Pitt was the obvious third choice with Rutgers fourth.
The problem goes back to the State of CT suing BC because UConn built Rentschler Field anticipating a rivalry with the only other New England D1 school, only to have BC bolt to the ACC. Other ADs in the ACC believed that having a BC/UConn rivalry would be good for the conference in solidifying the Northeast as well as a TV ratings winner. UConn already has a small rivarly with Duke in men's hoops and with multiple ACC schools in other non-revenue sports.
Now that Pitt and Cuse are in, there is a growing base of ACC followers who'd would like to see BC replaced with UConn. Which of course doesn't work. The ACC really needs both to make either of them worthwhile to the conference.
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