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It is VERY SAD that these people have nothing better to do than to hang out at McDonald's. One would think that there would be other venues, but perhaps not.
Nonetheless, McDonald's is in the business of selling food, not providing a free senior center.
I have often wondered (as opposed to the midwest where we have many parks and readily accessible public land in which one can "kill time") what poor and elderly urban citizens do for entertainment. With a fixed budget, it must really suck.
About six years ago I was at a McDonalds (fairly early in the morning) in Brattleboro, Vermont. I remember being struck by the age (most seemed 75+), and how white the clientele was (and I'm white).
Given how expensive it is to live in NYC, the McDonald's is probably faced with a hard economic choice. It has to keep the place full of customers who are continually buying food to make any money. So old folks occupying some tables may not be the real problem; it's the fact the old folks haven't spent any more money in the place for several hours is the problem.
Everything in a McDonald's franchise is built around getting the customer in and out in 15 minutes or less, while doing everything it can to keep the place full of waiting customers who are ready to pay their money. The waiting line has to exist to make money, but the wait also has to be short enough to keep the customers happy while they wait.
Perfectly, the total time spent is mostly spent in the time it takes to gobble down a happy meal. In most McDonald's that gobbling takes place in a car, but not in NYC, where a lot of the joint's traffic is pedestrian. So the table space that's being used all day by geezers is losing lots and lots of money for the owners.
But at the same time, the geezers are all neighborhood people who all have friends and family who eat at that McDonald's, so kicking them all out could cause an even more serious loss of business. Some of those geezers have been living on the single happy meal they but daily there for years, too. Some have spent thousands of dollars there if the place has been there for a long time.
When Grandma gets kicked out just because she's old and likes to hang out with her nice old friends, for sure, her family isn't going to want to patronize the joint any longer, nor will the families of her friends, nor the others who feel like the joint is picking on old people who don't have many places they can go to any more.
So it's just a hard thing to do anyway it spins. But I'm sure some compromise could be reached if everyone involved was willing to find a solution.
Given how expensive it is to live in NYC, the McDonald's is probably faced with a hard economic choice. It has to keep the place full of customers who are continually buying food to make any money. So old folks occupying some tables may not be the real problem; it's the fact the old folks haven't spent any more money in the place for several hours is the problem.
Everything in a McDonald's franchise is built around getting the customer in and out in 15 minutes or less, while doing everything it can to keep the place full of waiting customers who are ready to pay their money. The waiting line has to exist to make money, but the wait also has to be short enough to keep the customers happy while they wait.
Perfectly, the total time spent is mostly spent in the time it takes to gobble down a happy meal. In most McDonald's that gobbling takes place in a car, but not in NYC, where a lot of the joint's traffic is pedestrian. So the table space that's being used all day by geezers is losing lots and lots of money for the owners.
But at the same time, the geezers are all neighborhood people who all have friends and family who eat at that McDonald's, so kicking them all out could cause an even more serious loss of business. Some of those geezers have been living on the single happy meal they but daily there for years, too. Some have spent thousands of dollars there if the place has been there for a long time.
When Grandma gets kicked out just because she's old and likes to hang out with her nice old friends, for sure, her family isn't going to want to patronize the joint any longer, nor will the families of her friends, nor the others who feel like the joint is picking on old people who don't have many places they can go to any more.
So it's just a hard thing to do anyway it spins. But I'm sure some compromise could be reached if everyone involved was willing to find a solution.
The solution is for people to realize that MdDonalds is not a hang out. It's for people who want to eat. Go find somewhere else to hang out -- problem solved!!! The situation was obviously serious enough that they had to close the store. Dunkin Donuts doesn't seem to mind people hanging around, using the WiFi, etc -- as long as they are buying some coffee. Same thing with Starbucks although they only want a certain kind of customer hanging around -- ones with money.
Given how expensive it is to live in NYC, the McDonald's is probably faced with a hard economic choice. It has to keep the place full of customers who are continually buying food to make any money. So old folks occupying some tables may not be the real problem; it's the fact the old folks haven't spent any more money in the place for several hours is the problem.
Everything in a McDonald's franchise is built around getting the customer in and out in 15 minutes or less, while doing everything it can to keep the place full of waiting customers who are ready to pay their money. The waiting line has to exist to make money, but the wait also has to be short enough to keep the customers happy while they wait.
Perfectly, the total time spent is mostly spent in the time it takes to gobble down a happy meal. In most McDonald's that gobbling takes place in a car, but not in NYC, where a lot of the joint's traffic is pedestrian. So the table space that's being used all day by geezers is losing lots and lots of money for the owners.
But at the same time, the geezers are all neighborhood people who all have friends and family who eat at that McDonald's, so kicking them all out could cause an even more serious loss of business. Some of those geezers have been living on the single happy meal they but daily there for years, too. Some have spent thousands of dollars there if the place has been there for a long time.
When Grandma gets kicked out just because she's old and likes to hang out with her nice old friends, for sure, her family isn't going to want to patronize the joint any longer, nor will the families of her friends, nor the others who feel like the joint is picking on old people who don't have many places they can go to any more.
So it's just a hard thing to do anyway it spins. But I'm sure some compromise could be reached if everyone involved was willing to find a solution.
I just read the link in the OP, and the only place I have ever seen the time limit signs mentioned in the article in a McDonalds is just across the Hudson from Manhattan...in Fort Lee, New Jersey (and I've been in McDonalds, Starbucks, and Panera Bread locations all over the country). IIRC, the time limit signs I saw were for 45 minutes, not 20 minutes.
Don't they have crown green (lawn) bowling in the US.
The elderly also often enjoy golf and there are also community centres were you can play dominos, draughts. chequers, cards, chess, scrabble, darts, snooker/pool and other such games.
Social Clubs, Working Mens Clubs, Golf Clubs and Bowling Clubs often have a high percentage of elderly/seniors and they serve referenshments, food and even alcohol.
There are also local ramblers associations for the more active who enjoy going on group walks, as well as local swimming clubs and other sporting activities and trea dances, whilst gardening, allotments and vegetable/flower shows are also popular, as are sports such as pigeon racing etc.
There is certainly no need to be sitting around McDonalds for many pensioners.
The Flushing McDonalds closed in October of last year unexpectedly with no notice to patrons. (One can only imagine what would have happened had there been notice.) A local politician acknowledged that the five year long struggle with the elderly Korean group probably had something to do with it.
The store's employees were reassigned to other McDonalds stores.
A Burger King nearby -- also populated by lingering Korean seniors -- went out of business shortly before the McDonalds store.
Sad that someone lost their business to people screwing them over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMESMH
I just read the link in the OP, and the only place I have ever seen the time limit signs mentioned in the article in a McDonalds is just across the Hudson from Manhattan...in Fort Lee, New Jersey (and I've been in McDonalds, Starbucks, and Panera Bread locations all over the country). IIRC, the time limit signs I saw were for 45 minutes, not 20 minutes.
45 minutes is more reasonable than 20. I can do 20 mins. My son can do it. My wife is marginal and my daughter... forget it. We would sometimes go to restaurants and when we order, we would tell them to bring my daughter's food out as soon as it was ready. She eats at a GLACIAL pace.
These elderly Koreans will also order a few cups of coffee, add water and pour it into various cups to share amongst themselves, then sit for many hours. No wonder the business went out of business.
It struck me as I was updating this thread last night that it's the Tragedy of the Commons all over again.
The Tragedy of the Commons is a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action. It was originated by a British economist in the 1800s who used a hypothetical example of the effects of unregulated grazing on "common" (shared) lands.
As others have pointed out, twenty minutes is plenty of time for most people to eat their meal. But a group of customers determined to assert what they saw as their privilege ultimately spoiled it for everyone. Now there are two fewer places in the neighborhood to grab an inexpensive quick bite.
It didn't help that local pols, sensitive to charges of racism, were exerting pressure on the McDonalds to stop trying to enforce the time limit.
It struck me as I was updating this thread last night that it's the Tragedy of the Commons all over again.
The Tragedy of the Commons is a situation in a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting or spoiling that resource through their collective action. It was originated by a British economist in the 1800s who used a hypothetical example of the effects of unregulated grazing on "common" (shared) lands.
As others have pointed out, twenty minutes is plenty of time for most people to eat their meal. But a group of customers determined to assert what they saw as their privilege ultimately spoiled it for everyone. Now there are two fewer places in the neighborhood to grab an inexpensive quick bite.
It didn't help that local pols, sensitive to charges of racism, were exerting pressure on the McDonalds to stop trying to enforce the time limit.
This is also a cultural dispute. In Korean culture, elderly people believe they should have privilege because of the fact that they're older. They don't realize their culture doesn't apply in America.
Don't they have crown green (lawn) bowling in the US.
The elderly also often enjoy golf and there are also community centres were you can play dominos, draughts. chequers, cards, chess, scrabble, darts, snooker/pool and other such games.
Social Clubs, Working Mens Clubs, Golf Clubs and Bowling Clubs often have a high percentage of elderly/seniors and they serve referenshments, food and even alcohol.
There are also local ramblers associations for the more active who enjoy going on group walks, as well as local swimming clubs and other sporting activities and trea dances, whilst gardening, allotments and vegetable/flower shows are also popular, as are sports such as pigeon racing etc.
There is certainly no need to be sitting around McDonalds for many pensioners.
The retired seniors I know keep themselves busy with bocce ball (an Italian game) or bowling or some other activity. I don't eat fast food at all so I can't speak to who is or isn't there, but I've never heard of a group of seniors parking their behinds somewhere like this for the day. I can see where it could be a problem.
As for people posting that it's a good thing they closed - if they weren't a corporate-owned store but was franchised it means someone lost their business, so no, not good.
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