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Since that is not the case here there is no reason to bring it up here. No one has ever argued that citizens are never at fault.
Fair enough.
Because as I've stated if we have the technology/information to help us decide (which is only a recent development) let it show us on a case by case basis.
Whoever put that video up did a great job of splicing the individual body cams to show us everything going on.
Well, it's not racial profiling. Police just get called to these bad neighborhoods looking for the perp so they arrest anyone who looks suspicious.
Bad neighborhood? Are you kidding me? You assumed it was a bad neighborhood without watching the video didn't you? Had your mind made up about the black guy vs. cop from the get go.
I watched that whole video. That was one of the most egregious cases of police escalating a situation that I've ever seen. The man that was sitting on his porch showed remarkable restraint until the cop put his hands on him.
I'm afraid with my temper, it would have gotten ugly way sooner in the encounter. I would have told them to get the (bad word) off my property pretty quickly after they got there.
After the man handed over his ID with that address on it, he should have been apologized to, and they should have left.
Hope the taxpayers in that city like paying lawsuits for rogue cops.
Last edited by Ibginnie; 10-03-2016 at 08:20 AM..
Reason: bypassing the profanity filter
This stuff happens in high crime white trash trailer parks too.
Going into a war zone and the rules go out the window, for those with a target on their backs while wearing a badge... which is a license to hassle anyone...
War zone? I'll bet your street is not as nice as that one. You guys are really exposing your prejudices on this thread. You are the second person to make this assumption.
I have not read any other posts so as to give my view without knowing what other peoples perspectives are.
That said, I do not accept you trying to conflate the Gates arrest with this one, as the two are completely separate issues. I also do not accept you trying to justify or explain Kaepernicks disrespect toward America and the 9/11 victims based on this encounter.
I will start out by saying that up until about the 8 minute mark everything seemed fairly routine in the interaction between police and the suspect. I do refer to him as a suspect, because the police didn't just happen to stop and find him, they received a call from someone saying a suspicious man was doing something with a shovel, therefore the police already suspect something might not be right with this guy. I will also note that the suspect having prison tats and the cop noticing this heightens the suspicion level.
The cop tries to empathize with the guys story, and even is heard laughing with him.
In my view the trouble starts when the guy again tries to leave despite having been told to not attempt to go to the guys house (Charlie) next door, and the cop who is standing on the steps puts his hand out to prevent him from going any further. He tells the guy to sit back down, and the guy begins to have a change of attitude.
Then the guy makes a huge mistake by calling a friend and asking for them to come to the scene because the police are harassing him. As an individual I'd never have done that as it will only escalate the tension between myself and the cop.
From the cops perspective, he now wants to prevent any further attempts to have this guy have other friends of his head toward the house.
Now the first question I have for you, is if you were the cop in this situation, would you want this guy calling his friends to come to the scene?
If not then you obviously would demand he turn over his phone. The suspect obviously refused to hand it over and that is when everything escalated. . Under normal circumstances cops probably do not have the need or maybe even the authority to take someones phone who has not committed a crime. However that clearly changed when this guy calls his friend to come over.
As I watched the rest of the video, it was hard to tell what exactly was going on. The cop regardless of the physical arrest kept jawing back and forth with the suspect, which was an error in my view. He should only have stated commands and expected the guy to comply. By jawing back and forth, it only served to keep the tension high because the suspect was belligerent and it served to make him more so.
Now, regardless of whether the guy should have been arrested or not for refusing to turn over his phone and pulling it away from the cops grasp is one thing. We can 2nd guess whether the cop could have verbally commanded the guy to put his phone down, and if the guy complied, maybe none of this would have played out this way.
We can also wonder if the suspect had kept his seat and just let the cops do their job without trying to leave the area, or call his friend to come over, maybe none of this would have happened.
In my view both could have handled the situation better to avoid the physical arrest. Frankly, I do not see a racial component to this as I suspect if the cop were black and the suspect were white, this still could have happened if both acted in the same manner. Many a white suspect gets punched or injured when scuffling with the police.
With all that said, I'd like to know what the end result of the story is, regarding whether this guy should have been at that location. The article made it sound like no charges were filed against the suspect, which leads you to believe it was ok for him to be there. It also made it sound like the cop was stripped of his credentials to be a LEO.
Even if the cop was fired, I would be surprised they would attempt to take his ability to work away for this one incident. Neither he nor the guy were seriously hurt. So for the cop to lose his career over this one incident seems suspicious. Either he had a jacket full of incidents showing too much aggression, or it was a politically motivated action against him.
Anyone know or have a reasoned view on why he was dealt with so harshly?
I have not read any other posts so as to give my view without knowing what other peoples perspectives are.
That said, I do not accept you trying to conflate the Gates arrest with this one, as the two are completely separate issues. I also do not accept you trying to justify or explain Kaepernicks disrespect toward America and the 9/11 victims based on this encounter.
I will start out by saying that up until about the 8 minute mark everything seemed fairly routine in the interaction between police and the suspect. I do refer to him as a suspect, because the police didn't just happen to stop and find him, they received a call from someone saying a suspicious man was doing something with a shovel, therefore the police already suspect something might not be right with this guy. I will also note that the suspect having prison tats and the cop noticing this heightens the suspicion level.
The cop tries to empathize with the guys story, and even is heard laughing with him.
In my view the trouble starts when the guy again tries to leave despite having been told to not attempt to go to the guys house (Charlie) next door, and the cop who is standing on the steps puts his hand out to prevent him from going any further. He tells the guy to sit back down, and the guy begins to have a change of attitude.
Then the guy makes a huge mistake by calling a friend and asking for them to come to the scene because the police are harassing him. As an individual I'd never have done that as it will only escalate the tension between myself and the cop.
From the cops perspective, he now wants to prevent any further attempts to have this guy have other friends of his head toward the house.
Now the first question I have for you, is if you were the cop in this situation, would you want this guy calling his friends to come to the scene?
If not then you obviously would demand he turn over his phone. The suspect obviously refused to hand it over and that is when everything escalated. . Under normal circumstances cops probably do not have the need or maybe even the authority to take someones phone who has not committed a crime. However that clearly changed when this guy calls his friend to come over.
As I watched the rest of the video, it was hard to tell what exactly was going on. The cop regardless of the physical arrest kept jawing back and forth with the suspect, which was an error in my view. He should only have stated commands and expected the guy to comply. By jawing back and forth, it only served to keep the tension high because the suspect was belligerent and it served to make him more so.
Now, regardless of whether the guy should have been arrested or not for refusing to turn over his phone and pulling it away from the cops grasp is one thing. We can 2nd guess whether the cop could have verbally commanded the guy to put his phone down, and if the guy complied, maybe none of this would have played out this way.
We can also wonder if the suspect had kept his seat and just let the cops do their job without trying to leave the area, or call his friend to come over, maybe none of this would have happened.
In my view both could have handled the situation better to avoid the physical arrest. Frankly, I do not see a racial component to this as I suspect if the cop were black and the suspect were white, this still could have happened if both acted in the same manner. Many a white suspect gets punched or injured when scuffling with the police.
With all that said, I'd like to know what the end result of the story is, regarding whether this guy should have been at that location. The article made it sound like no charges were filed against the suspect, which leads you to believe it was ok for him to be there. It also made it sound like the cop was stripped of his credentials to be a LEO.
Even if the cop was fired, I would be surprised they would attempt to take his ability to work away for this one incident. Neither he nor the guy were seriously hurt. So for the cop to lose his career over this one incident seems suspicious. Either he had a jacket full of incidents showing too much aggression, or it was a politically motivated action against him.
Anyone know or have a reasoned view on why he was dealt with so harshly?
You know what? Give me a break. You know darn well that the guy didn't deserve what happened to him AT ALL. Not at all. He was totally pleasant with the cops until they just would not back down. So the guy called his friend? Big deal. I too would've done the same thing if I had cooperated the whole time & was STILL being questioned. That cop was at fault, plain & simple. Starting with continuing to badger him, even when the guy said the cops should go & talk to his mom's neighbors, to the cop trying to grab his phone because, GASP, the guy called a friend to tell him to come over. This whole thing stinks & you know it does. I'm sick to death of people like you constantly making excuses & pointing out "but but but, he shouldn't have done this or that". It's bull & you know it. And you can save the whole "you're just a cop hater", because I know it's coming. I have the utmost respect for cops. I work in the inner city & I am grateful whenever I see a cop. This one was out of line, totally. Enough.
Come ON, NLVgal, of course it's a bad neighborhood and war zone. Black people live there!
Do post your evidence for this.
Percentage wise it happens to blacks more. Numbers wise it happens to whites more. This is basic knowledge yet you don't know it? You've been in discussions on this subject and you have to ask?
I will also note that the suspect having prison tats and the cop noticing this heightens the suspicion level.
The cop tries to empathize with the guys story, and even is heard laughing with him.
Prison tats? At what timestamp? I see no tattoos. You just assumed.
I have not read any other posts so as to give my view without knowing what other peoples perspectives are.
That said, I do not accept you trying to conflate the Gates arrest with this one, as the two are completely separate issues. I also do not accept you trying to justify or explain Kaepernicks disrespect toward America and the 9/11 victims based on this encounter.
I will start out by saying that up until about the 8 minute mark everything seemed fairly routine in the interaction between police and the suspect. I do refer to him as a suspect, because the police didn't just happen to stop and find him, they received a call from someone saying a suspicious man was doing something with a shovel, therefore the police already suspect something might not be right with this guy. I will also note that the suspect having prison tats and the cop noticing this heightens the suspicion level.
The cop tries to empathize with the guys story, and even is heard laughing with him.
In my view the trouble starts when the guy again tries to leave despite having been told to not attempt to go to the guys house (Charlie) next door, and the cop who is standing on the steps puts his hand out to prevent him from going any further. He tells the guy to sit back down, and the guy begins to have a change of attitude.
Then the guy makes a huge mistake by calling a friend and asking for them to come to the scene because the police are harassing him. As an individual I'd never have done that as it will only escalate the tension between myself and the cop.
From the cops perspective, he now wants to prevent any further attempts to have this guy have other friends of his head toward the house.
Now the first question I have for you, is if you were the cop in this situation, would you want this guy calling his friends to come to the scene?
If not then you obviously would demand he turn over his phone. The suspect obviously refused to hand it over and that is when everything escalated. . Under normal circumstances cops probably do not have the need or maybe even the authority to take someones phone who has not committed a crime. However that clearly changed when this guy calls his friend to come over.
As I watched the rest of the video, it was hard to tell what exactly was going on. The cop regardless of the physical arrest kept jawing back and forth with the suspect, which was an error in my view. He should only have stated commands and expected the guy to comply. By jawing back and forth, it only served to keep the tension high because the suspect was belligerent and it served to make him more so.
snipped for brevity.....sort of
Well, at least you admitted you didn't read anyone's posts, sparing them from having to read yours.
I'll keep it short and only address a few of the statements that I bolded above.
It's not against the law to be sitting on a porch, but since the cop made his identity an issue, the challenge became proving he was who he said he was. Actually, that should have ended after he told the cop who he was. And the cop should have left the premises after showing him his i.d.
If I'm trying to confirm who someone is, I wouldn't care who he's calling to come over and identify him. And all the cop had to do was to ask the guy to get off the phone. There's no justification for trying to take the phone away. Do you believe people have zero rights???
And "prison tats"? What are prison tats? And why would they make the cop highly suspicious of the guy?
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