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Medical costs have not gone down since the study was published. They have only gone up.
Obamacare did nothing to bring down costs. It might have slowed the rate of increase somewhat but did nothing to actually bring down costs. So the number of people going broke from medical bills has gone up.
Quote:
Medical Bankruptcy and the Economy
Do Medical Bills Really Devastate America's Families?
•••
BY KIMBERLY AMADEO Updated May 16, 2018
Medical bills were the biggest cause of U.S. bankruptcies, according to a CNBC report. It estimated that 2 million people were adversely affected. A popular Facebook meme said the 643,000 Americans go bankrupt each year due to medical costs. President Obama, in his 2009 State of the Union address, said that a medical bankruptcy occurred every 30 seconds. That's 1 million bankruptcies in a year.
Medical costs have not gone down since the study was published. They have only gone up.
Obamacare did nothing to bring down costs. It might have slowed the rate of increase somewhat but did nothing to actually bring down costs. So the number of people going broke from medical bills has gone up.
Of course medical bills and even BK happen. And of course HC costs are rising. But with Obamacare we got many more people covered with the Medicaids and Obamacare plans. And they make it hard to go BK just from medical. Especially since there are no longer annual or lifetime limits.
Medical costs themselves are not so much the issue if you have this coverage.
My unfortunate wife is into her 3rd $million in HC costs since 1/1/17. Her Obamacare costs about $950/mo, and she has a max OOP in the $6-7K range/yr as I recall.
A large number of medical-related bankruptcies occurs when people lose their job. The resulting stress and strain of losing one's job tends to create more health problems, but with no source of income and no insurance to pay for it.
That's the problem with employment-based health insurance, which Obamacare does little to nothing to address.
As far as i can tell, the national insurance tax is 27%. From this chart, it looks like anyone making over 68k euro is taxed at 51%. Which includes the 27%
How is this half of what we pay here ? And don't forget the VAT of 21% on goods. 6% VAT on food, drink toiletries.
It doesn't sound value added unless you make less than 68k euro. So basically the upper income people fund the program.
Add in health insurance premiums, deductibles, copays, out-of-pockets and balance billing and the US citizen is paying MORE, far more, than those in Europe whose taxes also include retirement. I did the math a while back on Canada. US people here have an $16,000 per year higher exposure than Canadians including all taxes.
$14,867 - Taxes (includes health insurance/retirement (i.e. FICA)) $x2,250 - Health Care $17,117 - Total Costs - Taxes/Health Care
US family of 4 earning $80k w/employer-subsidized insurance pays:
$x6,120 - FICA Taxes (SS - similar to Canadian pension)
$x4,790 - Federal Income Taxes (includes $2k child tax credit)
$x6,000 - Employer subsidized health insurance (low) $x2,500 - Deductible, miscellaneous cost (low)
$19,410 - Total Costs - Taxes/Health Care
US citizen w/employer insurance pays about $2k a year more - plus still has exposure to balance billing and max-out-of-pocket issues.
For the US family forced to buy privately or on the ACA, their costs would look more like this:
$x6,120 - FICA Taxes
$x4,790 - Federal Income Taxes
$x8,000 - ACA subsidized premium national average $x6,000 - Deductible (maximum out-of-pocket up to $13,700) $24,910 - Total Costs - Taxes/Health Care
That is at least a $7,800/year difference for those not covered by an employer. And, the American still has another almost $8k balance billing and max out-of-pocket exposure.
There is variance in the provinces on availability of timely or specialist care . Most Canadians are very happy with their medical care, judging from the posts on health insurance forum and one former Canadian I know very well who has most of her family still in Canada. These people have been very prosperous in spite of the "high taxes" - and never give the cost of medical care a thought. It is very freeing. These people all own homes in Canada worth $500k or more. So much for high taxes taking everything you earn.
On long waits, here in US - I have a neighborhood clinic I go to almost always for the routine. Can usually get in within a day or two. Our major hospital clinics have much longer waits.
50 years ago I remember having to book primary care physician and ob-gyn appts. at least 3 months in advance. Long waits are nothing new to me.
Add in health insurance premiums, deductibles, copays, out-of-pockets and balance billing and the US citizen is paying MORE, far more, than those in Europe whose taxes also include retirement. I did the math a while back on Canada. US people here have an $16,000 per year higher exposure than Canadians including all taxes.
There is variance in the provinces on availability of timely or specialist care . Most Canadians are very happy with their medical care, judging from the posts on health insurance forum and one former Canadian I know very well who has most of her family still in Canada. These people have been very prosperous in spite of the "high taxes" - and never give the cost of medical care a thought. It is very freeing. These people all own homes in Canada worth $500k or more. So much for high taxes taking everything you earn.
On long waits, here in US - I have a neighborhood clinic I go to almost always for the routine. Can usually get in within a day or two. Our major hospital clinics have much longer waits.
50 years ago I remember having to book primary care physician and ob-gyn appts. at least 3 months in advance. Long waits are nothing new to me.
You can’t just compare cost as you also have to judge the care and quality you get.
Approx 40 years ago, twice a year dental check ups and fillings were covered for every Dutch person. Approx 20 yeayago that was reduced to one check up a year with co pay. Look at the down turn of the quality of the Dutch people’s teeth!
Obgyn check ups start above 35 yr old
No annual medical check ups for all ages. You go if your sick and a fever has to be above a certain F or a minimum of five days fever, before a doctor will see you.
Choose your doctor....as long as the doctor is in your zip code( primary doctor)
Want to be checked out by specialist...than pass the primary care doctor as if tha primary doesn’t feel the need...too bad for you!
Etc.
Cost is one thing, quality is the next, long wait times is the next one.
Some have pointed out that the two hospitals thy closed are privately held. After the government sold them due to being broke now they were held privately.
Keep in mind government run healthcare was paying most bills and that made this unaffordable to keep them open.
Other countries have less income restrictions and doctors run away from The Netherlands.
The Netherlands has a law that nobody can make more money than the president!
Unless you self employed and not getting paid by government money. Like entertainers, some TV producers, etc. but doctors, bankers, CEO’s all have to be at or below that Presidential pay. That’s killing jobs.
You can’t just compare cost as you also have to judge the care and quality you get.
Approx 40 years ago, twice a year dental check ups and fillings were covered for every Dutch person. Approx 20 yeayago that was reduced to one check up a year with co pay. Look at the down turn of the quality of the Dutch people’s teeth!
Obgyn check ups start above 35 yr old
No annual medical check ups for all ages. You go if your sick and a fever has to be above a certain F or a minimum of five days fever, before a doctor will see you.
In mot countries with Universal Healthcare including the UK, Dentistry is generally private, however those uner 18 or on low incomes and welfare can claim dental costs. The same applies to opticians, however if you have serious dental or optical problems there are dental and eye hospitals and units.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee
Choose your doctor....as long as the doctor is in your zip code( primary doctor)
Want to be checked out by specialist...than pass the primary care doctor as if tha primary doesn’t feel the need...too bad for you!
The Dutch system is one of private healthcare insurance, you can see any doctor you wish as in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee
Etc.
Cost is one thing, quality is the next, long wait times is the next one.
Some have pointed out that the two hospitals thy closed are privately held. After the government sold them due to being broke now they were held privately.
Keep in mind government run healthcare was paying most bills and that made this unaffordable to keep them open.
Hospitals in the Netherlands are generally private, and the Government never owned these hospitals. Most hospitals in the Netherlands are privately run, non-profit foundations, whereas most healthcare insurers are for-profit companies. There are some 90 hospital organisations in the Netherlands, with some of them running multiple hospitals, usually as a result of mergers of previously independent hospitals.
The main Government run facilities are mental health units and social care provision for the elderly, whilst hospices are often charities in may countries.
The Netherlands system possible has the least Government interference in healthcare after Switzerland where health costs are much higher than in other parts of Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee
Other countries have less income restrictions and doctors run away from The Netherlands.
The Netherlands has a law that nobody can make more money than the president!
Unless you self employed and not getting paid by government money. Like entertainers, some TV producers, etc. but doctors, bankers, CEO’s all have to be at or below that Presidential pay. That’s killing jobs.
Hard work is no longer awarded!
The Netherlands basically has a private insurance system and prvate hospitals with a few exceptions, so it is the system in Europe along with the Swiss system that is most similar to the US System.
It still costs less, even medicare in the US is charges less at hospitals than those whoi are insured. Those who don't have insurance or medicare being charged the most. Other countries pay far less for heathcare than the US.
The youtube video is just stating facts, indeed private systems are generally more expensive, which is why the Swiss system are among the most expensive in European and the Dutch system is also subject to criticism in relation to cost effectiveness and is more expensive than neighbouring European countries whilst Dutch Doctors are the highest paid in the world, the US is third.
If the US wants a private system based on private insurance that's up to Americans, however don't use the Dutch system as an example of socialised medicine because it's clealy not socialised indeed it's largely based around basic private medical insurance which the Government supplements. It is Universal Healthcare but it's not socialist by any stretch of the imagination.
Countries such as the UK and Italy have far more socialised systems, in these countries the vast majority of hospitals are owned and operated by the state and paid for out of taxes rather than heakth insurance, however this is not the case in the Netherlands. It also should be noted that Dutch healthcare has been criticised for not being cost effective, although basic health insurance cver is much cheaper in the Netherlands than in the USA.
Last edited by Brave New World; 10-28-2018 at 05:24 AM..
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The left doesn't even care if people can't afford housing, a basic life necessity. 
