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So your company currently carries the burden of your health care cost ? Many companies across the nation do, and then there are many individuals like my wife and I that pay into the system to cover those that either can't afford it or choose not to. So, if single payer is ever rolled out, the first thing that happens is corporations stop paying into it, they don't have to now. My wife and I stop paying our premiums as do many others since we don't have to anymore. And everyone gets a tax hike to paying the system. Do you really think there well be enough revenue to cover it ? Not to mention, the government managing it ? I also can see it now, states with higher populations of people in the workforce will be complaining about covering states with low populations with high unemployment.
I like the sound of "free" healthcare in theory... but I really don't think it could be sustainable in the long run.
On this, I've worked with many companies to help them obtain benefits packages for employees.
I do feel that taking the burden off of healthcare would be beneficial.
I honestly don't understand when conservatives (not sure if you are) don't support a universal healthcare plan since healthcare is a huge burden on employers especially small businesses.
I know that at my job I currently pay a premium of $250 a month for my famiily's medical coverage. My employer pays $750 a month for my family's medical coverage for their portion of the premium - they pay more than I do. I'd honestly rather they give me the $9000 a year that they pay in my salary and have a tax for healthcare of 10-15% of my entire salary to cover healthcare or have the federal government have a 1-2% sales tax for healthcare. I'd prefer the sales tax because it would apply to all Americans. I think it is totally do-able and that it would encourage people to pay t heir employees better and it would encourage entrepreneurs to take a leap and start a business.
No socialized healthcare systems are "totally" free. There are usually some sort of payments that families make and I think we can do that here. The co-pays along with a sales tax can fund a system. I also think that with a new universal healthcare system, the government would be forced to change citizenship requirements away from birthright citizenship. We IMO should adopt a similar registration system like they have in the UK for NHS and base it upon being a citizen and/or legal resident and remove birthright citizenship.
I often state that universal healthcare is my biggest "liberal lean" however IMO my lean for this sort of system is predicated upon more fiscally conservative values and eliminating barriers for commercial institutions/capitalists.
If this is truly the case then you're lower income and someone else has been paying more than their expected costs to cover for you.
Either that or you're not recognizing where you're being charged implicitly.
I'm not even against a single payer system in the US, but people need to be "eyes wide open" about how nothing is free.
Everybody knows its tax payer funded... we don´t go around believing it somehow magically funds itself. We call it "free".. even though we should really say "taxpayer funded single payer system".
I have since my early 20s made almost twice the average income in my country.. everybody pays taxes.
How many weeks does it take to see a medical professional in the Emergency Room?
I can't speak for others, only myself.
I recently had a sore throat that didn't seem to be getting better. I decided I had best get it checked out. From the time I decided to see a doctor, to the time I was being examined was apx. 1/2 an hour. (10 minutes of that would be travel time from home to the doctor) After getting a throat swab, I dropped the sample off at a local lab.
All primary and curative care (i.e. the family doctor service and hospitals and clinics) is financed from private mandatory insurance, and hospitals are private.
Long term care for the elderly, the dying, the long term mentally ill etc. is covered by social insurance funded from earmarked taxation under the provisions of the Algemene Wet Bijzondere Ziektekosten, which came into effect in 1968.
The Dutch system is the opposite of socialist, and is a based on private heathcare insurance and private hospitals with the exception of care for the elderly, mentally ill, those with long term conditions and the mentally ill, all of which are difficult to insure.
The Dutch system is costly and an an assessment of the 2006 Dutch health insurance reforms published in Duke University's Journal of Health Politics, Policy and Law in 2008 raised concerns.
"The analysis found that market-based competition in healthcare may not have the advantages over more publicly based single payer models that were originally envisioned for the reforms: The first lesson for the United States is that the new (post-2006) Dutch health insurance model may not control costs. To date, consumer premiums are increasing, and insurance companies report large losses on the basic policies. Second, regulated competition is unlikely to make voters/citizens happy; public satisfaction is not high, and perceived quality is down. Third, consumers may not behave as economic models predict, remaining responsive to price incentives. If regulated competition with individual mandates performs poorly in auspicious circumstances such as the Netherlands, how will this model fare in the United States, where access, quality, and cost challenges are even greater? Might the assumptions of economic theory not apply in the health sector".
Sp this is case of a private hospital group funed through private health insurance going bankrupt, and has more to do wiith capitalism than socialism.
Thanks for clarifying. It is so frustrating for someone to post misinformation and then have an entire thread of people giving their opinions on a false premise.
This should have been posted in the Europe forum, but it would have been shot down much quicker.
No, "socialized" healthcare is NOT "broke." As is often the case with people who've never lived in a country with UHC, you don't know what you're talking about.
"Arrangements have been made to transfer the 150 patients staying at the Slotervaart hospital to other locations in Amsterdam in the next few days. Insurers have guaranteed that beds will stay open for the 200 patients in the IJsselmeer hospitals until alternatives have been found.".
There is no indication that these were large facilities. The picture on the article Show a 700+ bed hospital. But the transfer numbers are equivalent to a small community hospital or a nursing home. I'm not sure if your aware but we have annual closures of facilities this size in America all the time. We have had national chains of hospitals go bankrupt in in America (Colombia hospitals, now HCA).
My Danish aunt was diagnosed with gall stones. She died in agony of liver cancer. Yay socialized medicine.
Do you think no one is ever misdiagnosed in the US? Do you think that doctors in the US never dismiss a patient's concerns, or that no one ever falls through the cracks of the US healthcare system?
On this, I've worked with many companies to help them obtain benefits packages for employees.
I do feel that taking the burden off of healthcare would be beneficial.
I honestly don't understand when conservatives (not sure if you are) don't support a universal healthcare plan since healthcare is a huge burden on employers especially small businesses.
I know that at my job I currently pay a premium of $250 a month for my famiily's medical coverage. My employer pays $750 a month for my family's medical coverage for their portion of the premium - they pay more than I do. I'd honestly rather they give me the $9000 a year that they pay in my salary and have a tax for healthcare of 10-15% of my entire salary to cover healthcare or have the federal government have a 1-2% sales tax for healthcare. I'd prefer the sales tax because it would apply to all Americans. I think it is totally do-able and that it would encourage people to pay t heir employees better and it would encourage entrepreneurs to take a leap and start a business.
No socialized healthcare systems are "totally" free. There are usually some sort of payments that families make and I think we can do that here. The co-pays along with a sales tax can fund a system. I also think that with a new universal healthcare system, the government would be forced to change citizenship requirements away from birthright citizenship. We IMO should adopt a similar registration system like they have in the UK for NHS and base it upon being a citizen and/or legal resident and remove birthright citizenship.
I often state that universal healthcare is my biggest "liberal lean" however IMO my lean for this sort of system is predicated upon more fiscally conservative values and eliminating barriers for commercial institutions/capitalists.
Works awesome for you. You get the $9k in your salary then have to pay it back in taxes.
For the wife and I , we would go from paying $7800 in premium to an additional $27k if it is taxed at 15% ...ah, no thanks. Now if single payer can be done by only raising taxes 5-6% I might buy into that.
Bernies plan for instance would only cost me a 2.5% increase in taxes but charge corporations 6.7% , provided they offer insurance at all. For those that do work at a company that provides it, do you really think they won't pull that 6.7% out of our salary ? So now you would be hit with a 9.2% increase, you might be fine with that, I'm not.
Our current system is definitely flawed, and a form of single payer, something closer to a co-op might be the answer. Then again, a co-op type of system only works when people are paying into it and currently there are no safeguards for it's members if it runs out of money.
Thanks for clarifying. It is so frustrating for someone to post misinformation and then have an entire thread of people giving their opinions on a false premise.
This should have been posted in the Europe forum, but it would have been shot down much quicker.
The entire right wing argument against a national health system is based on false premises.
The real premise is: "We hate anything administered by the government for the collective good, even if it would lower costs. We have it in our minds that all things like this amount to 'tyranny'. Therefore, we make sure people think national health systems are terrible by telling lies and cherry picking anecdotes to achieve our goal of making sure the US never goes in that direction."
Patients who were scheduled for surgery have to find a new doctor and start the process all over. Patients who were admitted, have to be transferred to other hospitals.
These two hospitals are big hospitals and not some small medical center.
Socialist health care is failing badly.
The choice of a primary doctor has to be in a certain zip code. Good luck to people who don’t live in the best areas. You will be stuck with the government telling you who your doctor will be!
Open your eyes as socialist don’t care about you. They care about other people’s money and run it down the drain. The socialist leaders will make sure they don’t battle same plan as you or they make sure thylive in the best areas.
Amsterdam was always part of Western, good society and is now becoming a healthcare poverty society as the system is completely broke.
Long wait time for treatments and for even seeing a doctor!
Careful what you wish for. Obama praises the Dutch and German system!
Obama praises a broken system and wished that on you!
Sweet Jesus. The ONLY reason many of the rural hospitals are still open is because of Obamacare. Now . . many of them have started closing as well. That's here dude. Right here in the USA.
Has been happening for several years.
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