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As for changing human nature, don't need luck, i'm helping to change it all by myself. I'm 23, a virgin, a male, wasn't home school, didn't go to a private school, didn't go to a boys school, don't have a hormone deficiency, so yea I know what its like to have insane urges (but you would have known all this if you read the thread). I'm beginning to think its human nature or American nature to be impulsive as hell, not care what comes of it, and when you run into a bind someone bales you out (I am referring to many things when I said this not just abortion).
But thanks for taking the time to tell me how I view things, couldn't have said it better myself, oh wait, I did.
Jebus, you're one of the people my age that gives me a headache.
The highlighted above says alot. Id be willing to bet you havent had a serious relationship at all yet. Let me give you a little heads up. Sex isnt just about a roll in the hay, some fun for a while and lets go. There is more involved in it than that, and I can almost guarantee you that until you actually fall in love, until you actually meet your someone you're dead serious about, you're not going to understand.
Also, I seriously doubt you've had much experience with human nature at all. P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?!
No one can change human nature....not even 23 year olds...
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Hey, hey now..Im 23 and I certainly have no problem with this particular aspect of human nature...Actually wish I could experience it more!
**** happens. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thats why you prepare. But oh no preparing is asking too much isn't it. Well if you don't prepare then there are consequences aren't there. I don't think there should be an out every time these consequences come up. But what am I thinking i'm just a guy.
No one has asked yet about the man's part, but I thought all you pro-choicers knew this part all too well. The man is there to raise the baby WITH the woman. Seemed to have forgot about that little part haven't we? And if the guy tries to bail the woman goes to court and makes the man pay up through, oh the term is escaping me now, but i'm sure you know what I am speaking of. Child support thats it. Could rob the guy clean but it was his decision to have sex too so he has it all coming to him. Sorry to burst your bubble, I know you would like to think of me as a woman hating chauvinist but everyone has to pay the piper at the end if they decide to play the game.
And if I didn't care about abortion I wouldn't have been wasting my time in this single thread all day. The man and the woman need to be held responsible for their actions and not just have an out every time a mistake is made. That is the problem with this world. Business goes down, bailout. Get pregnant because you were messing around, abortion. I'm fighting against being able to take the easy way out, if you are choosing to just throw away some cells in your body versus raising what you created for the rest of your life you are taking the easy way out.
even if you prepare - you can fall pregnant. I don't know about you (well youre a virgin, so this doesn't apply) But i've never said no to sex and said "sorry, I'm ovulating. Not a good time" . I'll take protection. Sometimes those precautions fail. They are precautions. NOT FAIL SAFE.
If I was your friend a) I would never have planned a pregnancy at 17 where I was financially, emotionally and mentally unable to handle it. Fine. that is her choice.
You're trying to take away MY CHOICE.
So it's easy for a man. If you don't want it, just throw some money the way of the mother. That is the only way a woman can get some buy in. Despite the financial, emotional & forever life changing role that a woman must play. If the man doesn't want it, he just provides some money. The woman's life is fundamentally changed forever. they're not the ones raising the child as a single mother. They're not the ones trying to hold down a job, raise a child & still maintain a life.
john if abortion were illegal I will ask you the same question I have asked of betmanlet that he won't answer. maybe you will. in america should a woman be forced to carry a baby, give birth to it, and raise it or give it up for adoption against her will? are you ok with the number of women who if abortion is illegal that would seek out back alley abortions or self induced abortions that result in deaths, because a legal safe abortion was not available. is all of that acceptable because it helps to promote responsibility?
I have already answered that question a few pages back, I really do not feel like repeating myself (like I have done so many times already in this thread) please scan through the previous few pages and you will find my answer.
I have already answered that question a few pages back, I really do not feel like repeating myself (like I have done so many times already in this thread) please scan through the previous few pages and you will find my answer.
you want me to run through 20 plus pages? would have taken as much time to answer the question as it did to write this evasive answer. take some effort and answer the question directly, not answering it with another question. I do know you said you thought adoption was a great idea but I did not see you answer the question about forcing a woman to bear a child even if she didn't want one.
Jebus, you're one of the people my age that gives me a headache.
The highlighted above says alot. Id be willing to bet you havent had a serious relationship at all yet. Let me give you a little heads up. Sex isnt just about a roll in the hay, some fun for a while and lets go. There is more involved in it than that, and I can almost guarantee you that until you actually fall in love, until you actually meet your someone you're dead serious about, you're not going to understand.
Also, I seriously doubt you've had much experience with human nature at all. P
Why don't you inform me what exactly i'm not going to understand until then. I have made a pledge to myself not to have sex before marriage. I understand why people have sex, I know what is involved in sex, and I know what results of sex. If I say anything in previous posts that is wrong debate that. Do not debate what I do in my private life because that does not matter. The reason I brought it up was because I was trying to make the point that I have the same urges and "distractions" as everyone else yet, somehow, keep it in my pants.
even if you prepare - you can fall pregnant. I don't know about you (well youre a virgin, so this doesn't apply) But i've never said no to sex and said "sorry, I'm ovulating. Not a good time" . I'll take protection. Sometimes those precautions fail. They are precautions. NOT FAIL SAFE.
If I was your friend a) I would never have planned a pregnancy at 17 where I was financially, emotionally and mentally unable to handle it. Fine. that is her choice.
You're trying to take away MY CHOICE.
So it's easy for a man. If you don't want it, just throw some money the way of the mother. That is the only way a woman can get some buy in. Despite the financial, emotional & forever life changing role that a woman must play. If the man doesn't want it, he just provides some money. The woman's life is fundamentally changed forever. they're not the ones raising the child as a single mother. They're not the ones trying to hold down a job, raise a child & still maintain a life.
You realize that that some money they are throwing forward could be so much it could put them in financial ruin, its not just twenty dollars for a bag of diapers and/or formula. Its quite significant.
YOUR CHOICE IS TO HAVE SEX. Last time i'm saying that. There are consequences for the choices we make it life no? I do not believe you should have the choice to bail out say "woops I didn't prepare, abortion here I come." I don't know if you have children or what you teach them about responsibility but when I have children with my WIFE we will make sure we teach them that when you have sex, you have the possibility of getting pregnant, once you get pregnant, you have to live with it period.
You are clearly not taking all precautions to prevent becoming pregnant if you have sex while ovulating, your asking for yourself to get pregnant, one day it may come to be and then you should have to live with being careless.
Why don't you inform me what exactly i'm not going to understand until then. I have made a pledge to myself not to have sex before marriage. I understand why people have sex, I know what is involved in sex, and I know what results of sex. If I say anything in previous posts that is wrong debate that. Do not debate what I do in my private life because that does not matter. The reason I brought it up was because I was trying to make the point that I have the same urges and "distractions" as everyone else yet, somehow, keep it in my pants.
you really have to experience a full on sexual love affair to have a real true understanding of it. you can explain to someone what it takes to scuba dive, explain all the tanks and regulators, and all the wonder of it, but until you scuba yourself you really can't comprehend at all only imagine. just like if you haven't experienced the emotion of marriage or divorce.
john if abortion were illegal I will ask you the same question I have asked of betmanlet that he won't answer. maybe you will. in america should a woman be forced to carry a baby, give birth to it, and raise it or give it up for adoption against her will? are you ok with the number of women who if abortion is illegal that would seek out back alley abortions or self induced abortions that result in deaths, because a legal safe abortion was not available. is all of that acceptable because it helps to promote responsibility?
If she decides to have sex without protection (and even with protection) she is risking pregnancy and she knows that, if she gets pregnant yes I expect her to carry the baby, give birth to it, and raise it if financially able, if not, put it up for adoption. Everyone men and women, need to realize sex comes with consequences and those consequences are pregnancy, if you can't handle that you shouldn't be playing the hanky panky. If you want to think it is against their will so be it, its not, they made the decision to have sex, they knew the consequences and they have to live with those consequences.
I don't like it that women would seek back alley abortions but if they do, that is their choice once again, they know the risks, and I'm going to say, I'm not wishing good things for these criminals if they choose to go that route. I carry no sympathy for criminals of any kind. Especially dumb criminals, and yes I think its dumb to shove a coat hanger up there, if you don't, next time you need an abortion don't bother paying the doctor, do it yourself see what happens....not smart right?
Responsibility is one of the most important things in this world so yes I believe all of this is acceptable in the name of responsibility. And yes I think the man should be punished also if he takes part in the abortion in anyway, I am not sexist if you create a criminal act, punishment is coming your way.
But if she has that kid and can't take care of it, then you'll end up paying for it. And then you'll moan and complain about it. So take your pick.
I'll take option B. If you mean through taxes, I am already paying them so let the baby be born.
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