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Hmm. Generalizing about an entire group of people based on a few extremists who aren't even representative of the group. They have a name for people like you.
Like so many of your other posts, this one demonstrates both your ignorance and arrogance. The premise behind the Paleo Diet is sound. Anyone with even a basic understanding of evolution should understand it. It's a very simple concept. Eat the foods that exist in nature and haven't been heavily processed. Avoid the things that were created by man. Gee. What a novel idea. And yet you call it quackery. Why? Because Paleo advises people to stop eating dairy. Explain to me why it makes sense to consume food meant for infants, and not even human infants. Or explain how bread doesn't qualify as fake food. Show me where bread exists in nature. BTW, Paleo has gone way beyond the Crossfit community. I knew about Paleo long before I ever heard of Crossfit and almost everyone I know that follows Paleo ISN'T into Crossfit. You also talk about the side effects of Paleo. Well here's some of the side effects I've experienced. 10% body fat, a 29" waist, lower cholesterol, lower blood pressure, lower triglycerides, lower resting heart rate, healthier skin, no more breakouts, no seasonal allergies, more energy, no more hair loss, better moods. Oh and I never have to count calories or grams of anything. Oh and I only have to exercise 30 minutes a day now. Lastly, I haven't given up the foods I enjoy. I still indulge in the occasional burger, pizza, or slice of cake.
It's funny listening to guys like you who think you know what you're talking about when what it's obvious you don't have a clue. You say the Paleo Diet has no scientific backing. What a sad way to live, sitting around waiting for the scientific community to catch up. I remember when the medical establishment said smoking was safe or that weight training was bad for your joints or when they were telling us to eat a high carb/low fat diet. Funny how the people who listened to the scientific community ended up getting fat and sick while the people who dared to think for themselves are now the ones whose "quackery" is being validated. Results speak for themselves and I and others like me have the results to say that what we're doing not only works, but has far more benefits than any of us expected. When someone like me eliminates seasonal allergies just by cutting out bread, you can't dismiss that as crackpot theory.
I was interested in the paleo diet a while ago. At the very time I was interested there was quite a bit of drama in the paleo community, at least online. It isn't something that I've ever really seen with any other diet. Had I not seen the poor behavior of some of the so called leaders in the field I might think differently. It definitely stopped me from buying one of the Paleo books. I'm not going to hijack the thread or name names, but if you dig a little there is definitely a cultish element to it. And these people aren't considered extremists within the paleo community. One person strikes me as quite vile.
I don't think the paleo diet is entirely without merit. No one has ever really sufficiently explained the basis for not eating legumes though.
Ugh. I really hate the passive aggressiveness.... THIS is what I hate about people who follow diets like that.
How is that passive aggressive when it is their exact words in response to my suggestion? they're the ones who ask "what diet are you on?" . I only suggest they give it a try. Fine if they do, I could care less if they don't. They can be on any diet and eat whatever they want, its all good.
I don't see what is unnatural about eating dairy or bread (?). How is it unnatural for people to use their brains to invent new stuff?
The reason why bread is not so great anymore is because wheat has been genetically modified. That's why there are so many celiacs now. Dairy comes from animals with so many hormones in them... and then it has additives & dyes, etc.
And if keeping livestock for meat is natural, then why isn't collecting their eggs & milk? Lots of people digest dairy just fine. Other adult animals drink & enjoy milk also (tell my cats they shouldn't have milk anymore; they don't care!). I've never read a good argument for it being unnatural that didn't seem filled with holes & bias.
I think food over all is too processed, yeah, but dairy & bread that is not overly processed is not going ruin most people's health & avoiding it won't improve their appearance, life quality or lifespan. Those with allergies are an exception, but sometimes those allergies are due to the bread or dairy being overly processed. Lots of people are allergic to nuts too, and those are generally seen as a good source of healthy fat and protein....
Anyhow, eating clean will probably give a guy MY more ideal body type than just working out. The leanness is mainly diet, yeah.
This workout is as legit as they come. I put on about 12 pounds of lean muscle February and got more defined and cut. Combine that with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, crossfit and a strict diet, it's certainly achievable and you'll be in the best shape possible. Be sure to use flax seed oil or fish oil, a good protein and multivitamin (if anything, you need to take a MV if you take a lot of protein). I was the same way as you, 5'11'', about 150, now I'm up to 162 and growing.
Edit: The workout isn't what's most important, it's your diet. Nutrition, nutrition, nutrition.
BUT REMEMBER:
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Originally Posted by CSD610
If it is FOR YOU then you do NOT need photos from anyone because you ONLY NEED to please YOURSELF.
Considering that I am very active in the fitness community and deal with/talk to Crossfitters every single day, for several years, I can tell you with absolute certainty that my sample size goes beyond a "few extremists." The attitude that Gatsby described is basically lock step with my own experiences and those of many, many other people.
You can try to write it off as a few extremists if that helps you sleep at night, but just remember you're talking about a program founded by an idiot with no education in health/fitness related science who pushed said program on the back of the cultist/elitist attitude, so you're fighting a losing battle.
It's you who's fighting the losing battle, not me. So you've encountered a lot of Crossfitters with a lousy attitude. Big deal. I can just as easily say that I've encountered a lot of Crossfitters who are the exact opposite. So which one of us is right? The answer is neither. Again, you can't generalize about an entire group of people based just on your own experiences with members of that group. Do you do that with black people too? Women? Gays?
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Originally Posted by Bosco55David
LULZ, it appears I hurt Denny's little Paleo feelings. I'll try to be quick with my rebuttal.
No. You just made me laugh. There's always someone on an Internet forum who thinks he knows what he's talking about. But the more he talks, the more he reveals that he doesn't have a clue. And that's you. But keep posting. It's always entertaining to see people embarrass themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David
1) I understand the concept behind Paleo perfectly. That concept it wrong. It's based on a false premise that "natural" foods are inherently good for you while man made or processed foods are bad or inferior. That is simply not true at all and thus the entire basis for Paleo falls flat on its face right out of the gate.
Once again, you demonstrate that you don't actually know what you're talking about. The premise behind Paleo ISN'T that all naturally occurring foods are good for you. Obviously, there are plenty of things that exist in nature that are bad for you. Poisonous mushrooms for example. But you have to start with a baseline when deciding whether something even qualifies as food. You say that it's untrue that processed food is bad for you. Name a processed food that you think is safe and I guarantee I'll find something wrong with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David
2) The Paleo community is the one taking the position that grains and dairy are unhealthy, thus the onus is on them to prove their claims, not on us to disprove it. There proof is based on the aforementioned false premise and the philosophy you elaborated in your post. Neither of those are based in science and neither of them are adequate rationale to abandon foods widely considered safe by food and health organizations the world over.
Wrong. Their claim is based on actual science. If you'd bother to educate yourself on what Paleo is, you'd know that. Read the book Wheat Belly for example. He thoroughly explains why grains are bad for you citing actual scientific research to backup his conclusions. These are not crackpots coming up with bogus unfounded theories. These are legitimate scientists and doctors doing this research. I doubt you've read any of these books.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David
3) Literally LOL at the line about smoking and low fat diets. That's not the stupidest rebuttal I've read on the City Data forum this week, but it's probably in the top 10. Tell us, Denny boy, what happened then? That's right, science corrected itself, in relatively short order I might add.
I have a simple question for you. If your diet is as good as you say it is, why has it been ridiculed instead of embraced on the mainstream level?
In short order? Do you consider several decades to be short order? Tell that to the people who lost loved ones to lung cancer because their doctors told them smoking was safe. Tell that to the people who went on low fat diets in the 80s and now have type 2 diabetes as the result of eating a high carb diet they were told was safe.
And to answer your question, the reason paleo is mocked is because anything that goes against conventional wisdom is mocked. BTW, weight training and high protein diets were ridiculed back in the 80s, but now it's mainstream to lift weights and eat low carb. Funny how people stop mocking something once they realize it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David
4) Your anecdotal results could have been easily replicated on a better diet and are almost certainly a result of getting healthier rather than some sort of Paleo voodoo magic.
Name a better diet that could've resulted in me eliminating seasonal allergies after suffering with them for over 35 years. I bet you can't. You know how I know? Because I used trial and error to see just what effect certain foods had on me. And guess what I found. It wasn't until I stopped eating grains that my symptoms went away. And I can easily test my theory by reintroducing grains. Every single time I did so, my allergy symptoms flared up. I made no other changes. And as soon as I cut the grains, the symptoms went away. Explain that to me if you're such an expert.
This kind of just proved my point... the passive aggressiveness, the 'mentioning' it in passing CONSTANTLY...no thanks. If you like Paleo that's great, but it's people who say 'Oh, you're eating bread? Fine, it's your health you can ruin it if you want'.
No different than most of the vegans I know.
Actually it doesn't prove your point. If someone asks me why I don't eat bread, how does me saying that I eat Paleo qualify as passive aggressive? Sounds to me like you're just being overly sensitive to the mere mention of the topic. You bring up vegans. If I'm having dinner with someone and I ask why they don't eat meat and they tell me they have a problem eating with the way animals are treated, how dies that qualify as being passive aggressive. They're simply answering my question.
It's you who's fighting the losing battle, not me. So you've encountered a lot of Crossfitters with a lousy attitude. Big deal. I can just as easily say that I've encountered a lot of Crossfitters who are the exact opposite. So which one of us is right? The answer is neither. Again, you can't generalize about an entire group of people based just on your own experiences with members of that group. Do you do that with black people too? Women? Gays?
Wrong. Their claim is based on actual science. If you'd bother to educate yourself on what Paleo is, you'd know that. Read the book Wheat Belly for example. He thoroughly explains why grains are bad for you citing actual scientific research to backup his conclusions. These are not crackpots coming up with bogus unfounded theories. These are legitimate scientists and doctors doing this research. I doubt you've read any of these books.
Name a better diet that could've resulted in me eliminating seasonal allergies after suffering with them for over 35 years. I bet you can't. You know how I know? Because I used trial and error to see just what effect certain foods had on me. And guess what I found. It wasn't until I stopped eating grains that my symptoms went away. And I can easily test my theory by reintroducing grains. Every single time I did so, my allergy symptoms flared up. I made no other changes. And as soon as I cut the grains, the symptoms went away. Explain that to me if you're such an expert.
Just because someone is a legitimate scientist or doctor it doesn't make whatever they are trying to sell legitimate. I read Wheat Belly, much of it is anecdotal. He doesn't give researched based answers on why he endorses some foods but bans others. It isn't just grains he talks about eliminating. The diet is so restrictive as described in the book it would be difficult to run clinical trials to prove how effective it is.
I was interested in the paleo diet a while ago. At the very time I was interested there was quite a bit of drama in the paleo community, at least online. It isn't something that I've ever really seen with any other diet. Had I not seen the poor behavior of some of the so called leaders in the field I might think differently. It definitely stopped me from buying one of the Paleo books. I'm not going to hijack the thread or name names, but if you dig a little there is definitely a cultish element to it. And these people aren't considered extremists within the paleo community. One person strikes me as quite vile.
I don't think the paleo diet is entirely without merit. No one has ever really sufficiently explained the basis for not eating legumes though.
You have to separate the diet from the people promoting it. When I was younger, I avoided weight training because all the people I saw promoting were arrogant meatheads. But now I know just why weight training is important. Same with Paleo. Don't let arrogant Paleo types cause you to dismiss the diet itself.
As for legumes, the reason they're banned from the diet is because they contain phytates, which bind up minerals in your food and prevent their absorption by the body. Legumes also cause bloating and gas, which most of us laugh at but is actually pretty serious. The carbs in legumes are digested by the bacteria in your gut, but not your own body. This bloating and gas leads to inflammation, which is never a good thing.
You have to separate the diet from the people promoting it. When I was younger, I avoided weight training because all the people I saw promoting were arrogant meatheads. But now I know just why weight training is important. Same with Paleo. Don't let arrogant Paleo types cause you to dismiss the diet itself.
As for legumes, the reason they're banned from the diet is because they contain phytates, which bind up minerals in your food and prevent their absorption by the body. Legumes also cause bloating and gas, which most of us laugh at but is actually pretty serious. The carbs in legumes are digested by the bacteria in your gut, but not your own body. This bloating and gas leads to inflammation, which is never a good thing.
I'd have to see more scientific study of that issue before I would ban them. Many cultures eat lots of legumes without having health problems. I think if someone experiments with banning legumes and it works for them...great. Many seem to eat them with no problem. For instance legumes have been identified as being part of the diet in the "blue zone" areas.
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