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Just because someone is a legitimate scientist or doctor it doesn't make whatever they are trying to sell legitimate. I read Wheat Belly, much of it is anecdotal. He doesn't give researched based answers on why he endorses some foods but bans others. It isn't just grains he talks about eliminating. The diet is so restrictive as described in the book it would be difficult to run clinical trials to prove how effective it is.
There are plenty of other books out there and they cite studies that you're free to look at. As far as the diet being restrictive, so what? Most people dwell on how they'll have to give up their favorite foods. To me, it's worth it if it means being healthier and in better shape. And it's not like I eliminate junk food 100%. I've just learned to have it in very limited amounts.
I don't see what is unnatural about eating dairy or bread (?). How is it unnatural for people to use their brains to invent new stuff?
The reason why bread is not so great anymore is because wheat has been genetically modified. That's why there are so many celiacs now. Dairy comes from animals with so many hormones in them... and then it has additives & dyes, etc.
And if keeping livestock for meat is natural, then why isn't collecting their eggs & milk? Lots of people digest dairy just fine. Other adult animals drink & enjoy milk also (tell my cats they shouldn't have milk anymore; they don't care!). I've never read a good argument for it being unnatural that didn't seem filled with holes & bias.
I think food over all is too processed, yeah, but dairy & bread that is not overly processed is not going ruin most people's health & avoiding it won't improve their appearance, life quality or lifespan. Those with allergies are an exception, but sometimes those allergies are due to the bread or dairy being overly processed. Lots of people are allergic to nuts too, and those are generally seen as a good source of healthy fat and protein....
Anyhow, eating clean will probably give a guy MY more ideal body type than just working out. The leanness is mainly diet, yeah.
Pretend you never saw bread before. Would you know that it's food? If I see a piece of meat, I know it used to be an animal. If I see an apple, I know it fell of a true. But where do you see a slice of bread in nature? You don't. And then you discover it's derived from grains. And you go out look at actual grains in the wild. Would you think to eat them? And think about how much you had to change the grains to make into a slice of bread. You can't even tell that it was a grain.
As for milk, think about what milk is for. It's for infants. But after an infant is old enough to process solid food, it stops drinking its mother's milk. And yet we humans still consume a food meant for infants, and not even human infants. If you never saw or heard of milk, would you think to drink the milk meant for baby cows?
Pretend you never saw bread before. Would you know that it's food? If I see a piece of meat, I know it used to be an animal. If I see an apple, I know it fell of a true. But where do you see a slice of bread in nature? You don't. And then you discover it's derived from grains. And you go out look at actual grains in the wild. Would you think to eat them? And think about how much you had to change the grains to make into a slice of bread. You can't even tell that it was a grain.
As for milk, think about what milk is for. It's for infants. But after an infant is old enough to process solid food, it stops drinking its mother's milk. And yet we humans still consume a food meant for infants, and not even human infants. If you never saw or heard of milk, would you think to drink the milk meant for baby cows?
We learned things from our ancestors. Some of mine our Cherokee Indian. Every now and then I throw a tomahawk or make smoke signals......wow early morse code....who would of thunk it?
It may seem off topic to be discussing the merits of Paleo, but it's actually relevant to the original post. If you decide you want a man with a certain amount of muscle on him, then you're also raising the issue of what he does to have that muscle. I knew a girl in college who wanted to date a bodybuilder. But when she finally did, she discovered the trade off. He was a big guy, but he had to eat all the time, obsesses over missed workouts, etc. she quickly decided it wasn't worth it just to have a muscular boyfriend. The same is true of Crossfitters. A lot of those people are incredibly lean, but they're also extreme with their workouts. And as has been pointed out in this thread, many (though not all) have a lousy attitude when it comes to eating Paleo. So if you're a guy who thinks you need to bulk up to impress women and need a six pack, ask yourself two questions. Is she worth the trouble and will she tolerate the things you have to do in order to look that way?
It may seem off topic to be discussing the merits of Paleo, but it's actually relevant to the original post. If you decide you want a man with a certain amount of muscle on him, then you're also raising the issue of what he does to have that muscle. I knew a girl in college who wanted to date a bodybuilder. But when she finally did, she discovered the trade off. He was a big guy, but he had to eat all the time, obsesses over missed workouts, etc. she quickly decided it wasn't worth it just to have a muscular boyfriend. The same is true of Crossfitters. A lot of those people are incredibly lean, but they're also extreme with their workouts. And as has been pointed out in this thread, many (though not all) have a lousy attitude when it comes to eating Paleo. So if you're a guy who thinks you need to bulk up to impress women and need a six pack, ask yourself two questions. Is she worth the trouble and will she tolerate the things you have to do in order to look that way?
Personally, I don't care for bodybuilders. I think most bodybuilders lead a very lonely life to be completely honest.
As a college water polo player, I trained on average 6 hours a day and I was tired all the time. I did get a lot of attention and dates, but the so called relationships didn't really last.. It truly takes another professional athlete to understand the mentality of competitive athletes. A lot of athletes I knew back then were very insecure. Many of them had body images issues.
The sad truth is that In sports, athletes can be replaced easily, so they have to have a “everyone is my opponent mentality even if they are friends.
I only dated college football players back in college because we both had to train very hard in order to stay in the game. We also got used to a lot of put downs and let downs. I was/am 5'7" but for a competitive swimmer, I was considered to be short. I also had to hear, "You are not fast enough. You are fast, but not enough." all the time. Being an artist doesn't help either, I had to hear "Okay, you are good, but there are better. Why do we need to use your works in stead of his or hers? Convince us why you are the one."
All the put downs and let downs did tricks on my psychological well beings to say the least.
Now, I just want somebody who understand and accept me for me. I have always been a dare devil kind of person, I LOVE extreme sports. So the men I am attracted to are the same type.
My two brothers are in GREAT shape. They only work out on average 1 hour a day. I play sports 5 times a week. I can no longer keep up with a professional athlete, it is tiring after a while.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 06-25-2013 at 12:22 PM..
Reason: spelling errors
Hahahahaha! I was wondering how long it would take poor little Denny to come back. Truthfully, I had almost forgotten about this thread but I should have known better. He's not the type to accept an intellectual ass beating like a man and alwayshas to come back and try to get the last word.
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Originally Posted by DennyCrane
It's you who's fighting the losing battle, not me. So you've encountered a lot of Crossfitters with a lousy attitude. Big deal. I can just as easily say that I've encountered a lot of Crossfitters who are the exact opposite. So which one of us is right? The answer is neither. Again, you can't generalize about an entire group of people based just on your own experiences with members of that group. Do you do that with black people too? Women? Gays?
Hate to tell you, but stereotypes generally exist for a reason. Sometimes there is more truth than there is at other times, but with Crossfit it's about as close to fact as you can get. I notice you refused to address my comments about Glassman (my guess is you didn't even know who he is) and his attitude and approach to fitness. I'm normally against doing people's homework for them, but in this case I'll play nice. Here's a link, complete with sources, to a whole bunch of crossfit quackery/lunacy, including much of Glassman's many jokes that he called fitness. You'll find his attacks on Mel Siff (one of the most educated and respected members of the fitness community) and the Air Force command rather telling about his approach to fitness and the culture he created.
(For the record, I'm not actually expecting that you will read any of that information. I fully expect that you will stick your head in the sand with fingers in your ears and ignore it...because that's how you roll)
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No. You just made me laugh. There's always someone on an Internet forum who thinks he knows what he's talking about. But the more he talks, the more he reveals that he doesn't have a clue. And that's you. But keep posting. It's always entertaining to see people embarrass themselves.
*****, please. You're an engineer and that field has absolutely jack **** to do with health and nutrition. I, on the other hand, was in a biology major with designs on a nutritionist career until I found a more interesting and lucrative path, so I actually have some formal education in this matter.
Tell you what, though. If you're up for it, we can take a stroll on up the road to the Diet sub forum and have it out there. I can hold my own as it is, but up there we have posters like Anon and Suzy Q who actually got their degrees in health related fields. We've already sliced and diced most of the Paleo nonsense already, but I'm sure we could have another go at it.
Let's see who really knows their ****.
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Once again, you demonstrate that you don't actually know what you're talking about. The premise behind Paleo ISN'T that all naturally occurring foods are good for you. Obviously, there are plenty of things that exist in nature that are bad for you. Poisonous mushrooms for example. But you have to start with a baseline when deciding whether something even qualifies as food.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ARE YOU SERIOUS?!? You take my argument to an absurd, absolutist extreme and think that someone helps your argument? Well, I guess if the diet you support is based on a logical fallacy, defending it with another logical fallacy is the next appropriate step.
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You say that it's untrue that processed food is bad for you. Name a processed food that you think is safe and I guarantee I'll find something wrong with it.
Coke Zero. It's a drink, but same principle applies.
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Wrong. Their claim is based on actual science. If you'd bother to educate yourself on what Paleo is, you'd know that. Read the book Wheat Belly for example. He thoroughly explains why grains are bad for you citing actual scientific research to backup his conclusions. These are not crackpots coming up with bogus unfounded theories. These are legitimate scientists and doctors doing this research. I doubt you've read any of these books.
I haven't read Wheat Belly, but I've read a few other Paleo based diet books and found them to all follow the same general formula and categorically wrong in many basic things.
Since you brought up Wheat Belly, I did a little research and see that it's already received wide criticism from the scientific community. You can click this link for a general discussion and other outside links to criticism. If you're feeling really froggy though, you can check out this PDF document. It's a 13 page monstrosity of an academic piece that point by point takes down the authors claims, supported by about 120 references, many of them from peer reviewed journals.
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In short order? Do you consider several decades to be short order? Tell that to the people who lost loved ones to lung cancer because their doctors told them smoking was safe. Tell that to the people who went on low fat diets in the 80s and now have type 2 diabetes as the result of eating a high carb diet they were told was safe.
Ahh, appeal to emotion. Hooray for logical fallacies again! Woooohoooo!!
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And to answer your question, the reason paleo is mocked is because anything that goes against conventional wisdom is mocked. BTW, weight training and high protein diets were ridiculed back in the 80s, but now it's mainstream to lift weights and eat low carb. Funny how people stop mocking something once they realize it works.
Now I see why you latched onto Paleo. You fancy yourself as some sort of anti-establishment iconoclast, so the marriage between you and Paleo is match made in quack heaven. It all makes perfect.
And no, this doesn't answer my question. If you're arguing on the stipulation that science was wrong on some issues (it was) and the stipulation that science has since corrected itself (it has) and you've used "several decades" as your marker...then you must answer why in that same time frame the scientific community has grown more and not less critical of Paleo diets.
With that, I have walked you to the only logical conclusion possible. It's up to you whether you accept it or go back down the quack path.
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Name a better diet that could've resulted in me eliminating seasonal allergies after suffering with them for over 35 years. I bet you can't. You know how I know? Because I used trial and error to see just what effect certain foods had on me. And guess what I found. It wasn't until I stopped eating grains that my symptoms went away. And I can easily test my theory by reintroducing grains. Every single time I did so, my allergy symptoms flared up. I made no other changes. And as soon as I cut the grains, the symptoms went away. Explain that to me if you're such an expert.
Easy explanation. It's quite possible you have an allergy/intolerance to wheat and/or grains as that does happen, and thus avoiding them would be smart for you. That fact has absolutely no bearing on the nutritional value of wheat and grains, however.
It may seem off topic to be discussing the merits of Paleo, but it's actually relevant to the original post. If you decide you want a man with a certain amount of muscle on him, then you're also raising the issue of what he does to have that muscle. I knew a girl in college who wanted to date a bodybuilder. But when she finally did, she discovered the trade off. He was a big guy, but he had to eat all the time, obsesses over missed workouts, etc. she quickly decided it wasn't worth it just to have a muscular boyfriend. The same is true of Crossfitters. A lot of those people are incredibly lean, but they're also extreme with their workouts. And as has been pointed out in this thread, many (though not all) have a lousy attitude when it comes to eating Paleo. So if you're a guy who thinks you need to bulk up to impress women and need a six pack, ask yourself two questions. Is she worth the trouble and will she tolerate the things you have to do in order to look that way?
Dieting does not mean paleo. Especially for bodybuilders. I know tons of very competitive ones. I have never heard or read of any of them eating strictly paleo. Some may, however it's FAR from a requirement for success. This thread and the merits of paleo are not related. One does not need paleo to look good.
So no. They arent related. Quit using the thread to push your unrelated pwrsonal beliefs.
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