Shouldn't relationships be easy? (guys, separated, Latin, emotionally)
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Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
Agree. While I'm definitely not one to avoid intense, deep conversation, I find it's important to remember in everyday friendships and romantic relationships that there is a time and a place for lightheartedness.
Yes, balance is the key. I've had some that didn't have this balance (one woman's personal slogan was literally #neverlighthearted) and that did not work for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
But I wonder if he's being a bit disingenuous. Can someone who identifies with a group that believes that relationships with women are soul-crushing and miserable and that women in relationships want nothing more than to control men actually respect women enough to have a truly sincere platonic relationship with them? You can't be in the KKK and also insist that your Jewish doctor is great.
Some people literally believe they can say this and mean it, with a straight face.
I've actually studied a lot of psychology and sociology. You would find what I know about relationships pretty staggering. I probably know more than you.
What I've learned is people don't like to own up to their true motivations. For instance, a person will rarely say "I'm in a relationship because I'm insecure and afraid of being alone" or "I'm in a relationship for the lifestyle and financial benefits" or "I'm in a relationship to live up to a certain social, religious or family image". That's too dark. But its often the truth. Not to say some people are not truly in love. But those people are not as numerous as we all want to believe.
Relationship motivations are a mixed bag of positive motivations and dark motivations. People only like admitting to the positive ones.
The people who get irritated by the questions I ask are usually the people with the darkest motivations. Motivations they may not even want to admit to themselves. No question about relationships or how they work should be upsetting when your motivations are pure.
When I ask questions.. I'm seeking to learn people's motivations. People who are at peace with their motivations give the most direct and drama-free answers. Those who are NOT at peace with their motivations get irritated with me and seek to change the subject or paint me as dysfunctional for asking the question.
Hope that answers all your questions.
"Well, actually..." Gimme a damn break. Yeah, I've studied a lot of psychology and sociology, too, and I guarantee you don't know more about it, or about relationships, than I do. Most particularly, I know a LOT about the many forms of alternate-to-normal relationships that people get up to, and how they do it right, and how they do it wrong. My particular social group are masters of crafting unique connections, on their own terms, things you don't seem to believe are even possible, I see them every day.
I see dishonest "gaming" in "relationships" as dysfunctional. It is not healthy for me to deal with, that I know well enough. So when it boils down to YOUR motivations...let's just say that when I see your responses, I bear in mind where (according to information YOU have provided here in this forum) you are coming from. Everything is subjective, and little makes sense if you have no context. Lucky for us, you've provided plenty.
Let's talk motivations for a moment, that's an intriguing line of thought. I am in relationships because I like people, and enjoy investing myself in them enough to share time and interactions of a certain depth. Because I like sex, and it's more fun when I'm doing that with others as opposed to by myself. Because there are some sensations (not even necessarily sexual, I dated a massage therapist for a while there!) that feel good, that require the assistance of another person to enjoy. And because being giving to other humans feels rewarding, purposeful, and validating. Because they also provide opportunities for experiences I would not have on my own. I would never have gone ziplining in the canyons, had my former girlfriend not got the Groupon and taken us all to do that. She doesn't do such things for mere platonic friends.
Now to motivation behind committing to one partner and moving in together. I was living in a tiny apartment and he was living in a run down old townhouse with many issues and annoying neighbors. I did the math, and figured that partnered up, we could afford a better place than either of us had, with plenty of room (we live like roommates, each with our own space) and both of us would save money. Win! Mutually beneficial. Thinking down the line, my income will help him to retire. His inheritance one day, decades (hopefully) from now, will help me retire when it's time. Each of us can help the other achieve goals, that will make life better for us both together and each as individuals.
Why is a romance needed for this kind of partnership, though? It isn't necessarily, but what we've got that I wouldn't have, with some friend or associate, is trust. Deep trust. We each count on the other. Not to take advantage, not to lose a job and fail to get another, and be a bum or a mooch, not to violate the other or do harm in the other's life, whether through ill intent or mere carelessness. That trust, with all of the elements of my life, is not easy to come by. It takes lots of time with someone, to know them well enough, to give them that trust. And I don't tend to want to invest that much time with someone, unless I have bonded feelings for them.
So when we talk about lives "in sync" this is what I mean. Might be useful to define terms, as I'm seeing some assumptions flying. We aren't attached at the hip, not at all. Each of us does plenty of social and recreational things without the other. We don't even sleep in the same bed very often. But I feel our lives are in sync because we are able to functionally live together, be considerate to one another's needs, share responsibilities and benefit one another, and so on. The cogs in the machine of our shared household are lined up and turning, not jangling around and catching the apparatus on fire. To me, that's "in sync."
Last thing...marriage. We're thinking about it, probably in 2-3 years. Why? Because it's a shortcut to some social benefits, will affect our financial and estate plans in ways that work well for us, and make it easy to share health insurance. Stuff like that. You can accomplish most of these things with other documents and processes, but getting married takes care of it all with one rubber stamp. And because we would get to plan and execute a party where we only do things we want to that we think are fun, and only invite people we like, and no, THIS bride right here would not be talking about some expensive churchy boring nonsense. If I want to set up a bondage circus at a nude hot springs where we serve purple colored mead from the plastic skulls of our pretend enemies, I will damn well do it (if my partner is willing.) That's how I see life. Do what you want. "Society" doesn't like it? Tough. Who cares? My relationship is about me and him and what we want.
He has been offered many answers. Logical ones, emotional ones, serious ones, snarky ones. Long answers and short answers. Answers in a box. Answers with a fox.
About the only kind he appears to have interest in accepting, seem to be of the "I know, right!?" flavor.
He has been offered many answers. Logical ones, emotional ones, serious ones, snarky ones. Long answers and short answers. Answers in a box. Answers with a fox.
About the only kind he appears to have interest in accepting, seem to be of the "I know, right!?" flavor.
*shrug*
Not your problem.
I'm looking for the most common pattern among all the answers.
"Well, actually..." Gimme a damn break. Yeah, I've studied a lot of psychology and sociology, too, and I guarantee you don't know more about it, or about relationships, than I do. Most particularly, I know a LOT about the many forms of alternate-to-normal relationships that people get up to, and how they do it right, and how they do it wrong. My particular social group are masters of crafting unique connections, on their own terms, things you don't seem to believe are even possible, I see them every day.
I see dishonest "gaming" in "relationships" as dysfunctional. It is not healthy for me to deal with, that I know well enough. So when it boils down to YOUR motivations...let's just say that when I see your responses, I bear in mind where (according to information YOU have provided here in this forum) you are coming from. Everything is subjective, and little makes sense if you have no context. Lucky for us, you've provided plenty.
Let's talk motivations for a moment, that's an intriguing line of thought. I am in relationships because I like people, and enjoy investing myself in them enough to share time and interactions of a certain depth. Because I like sex, and it's more fun when I'm doing that with others as opposed to by myself. Because there are some sensations (not even necessarily sexual, I dated a massage therapist for a while there!) that feel good, that require the assistance of another person to enjoy. And because being giving to other humans feels rewarding, purposeful, and validating. Because they also provide opportunities for experiences I would not have on my own. I would never have gone ziplining in the canyons, had my former girlfriend not got the Groupon and taken us all to do that. She doesn't do such things for mere platonic friends.
Now to motivation behind committing to one partner and moving in together. I was living in a tiny apartment and he was living in a run down old townhouse with many issues and annoying neighbors. I did the math, and figured that partnered up, we could afford a better place than either of us had, with plenty of room (we live like roommates, each with our own space) and both of us would save money. Win! Mutually beneficial. Thinking down the line, my income will help him to retire. His inheritance one day, decades (hopefully) from now, will help me retire when it's time. Each of us can help the other achieve goals, that will make life better for us both together and each as individuals.
Why is a romance needed for this kind of partnership, though? It isn't necessarily, but what we've got that I wouldn't have, with some friend or associate, is trust. Deep trust. We each count on the other. Not to take advantage, not to lose a job and fail to get another, and be a bum or a mooch, not to violate the other or do harm in the other's life, whether through ill intent or mere carelessness. That trust, with all of the elements of my life, is not easy to come by. It takes lots of time with someone, to know them well enough, to give them that trust. And I don't tend to want to invest that much time with someone, unless I have bonded feelings for them.
So when we talk about lives "in sync" this is what I mean. Might be useful to define terms, as I'm seeing some assumptions flying. We aren't attached at the hip, not at all. Each of us does plenty of social and recreational things without the other. We don't even sleep in the same bed very often. But I feel our lives are in sync because we are able to functionally live together, be considerate to one another's needs, share responsibilities and benefit one another, and so on. The cogs in the machine of our shared household are lined up and turning, not jangling around and catching the apparatus on fire. To me, that's "in sync."
Last thing...marriage. We're thinking about it, probably in 2-3 years. Why? Because it's a shortcut to some social benefits, will affect our financial and estate plans in ways that work well for us, and make it easy to share health insurance. Stuff like that. You can accomplish most of these things with other documents and processes, but getting married takes care of it all with one rubber stamp. And because we would get to plan and execute a party where we only do things we want to that we think are fun, and only invite people we like, and no, THIS bride right here would not be talking about some expensive churchy boring nonsense. If I want to set up a bondage circus at a nude hot springs where we serve purple colored mead from the plastic skulls of our pretend enemies, I will damn well do it (if my partner is willing.) That's how I see life. Do what you want. "Society" doesn't like it? Tough. Who cares? My relationship is about me and him and what we want.
You definitely don't know more about relationships than me.
Also, your entire post just proves everything I said in this thread.
The primary motivation for your relationship seems to be practical/money/security related. Its not really all about "I'm so in love and this is my soulmate" kind of thing.
Meh. I don't really expect my wife to support me or "lift me up". It's like playing chess and expecting your opponent to help you with your game. Like I mentioned earlier, I see marriage as a proverbial chess game, and I'm always thinking ahead, to avoid getting checkmated.
Speaking of which, if relationships are indeed "hard" (for which partner? ), why do people even bother with them? Work is hard. Financial planning is hard. Why do people complicate their lives even further? Are we masochists or just scared of going against the norm?
How long have you been married? I apologize if you said already, more curious than anything.
Do you expect everything in your marriage to be easy? Never have any tough times? It's not complicated, you work through issues. Some take longer than others.
Like someone said earlier, marriage is not a chess game. I am not looking to win a match with my husband. I am looking for him to be a partner in life with me.
You definitely don't know more about relationships than me.
Also, your entire post just proves everything I said in this thread.
The primary motivation for your relationship seems to be practical/money/security related. Its not really all about "I'm so in love and this is my soulmate" kind of thing.
I definitely disagree with regard to relationship knowledge.
Define love, define soulmate?
Of course I am deeply in love with my partner. But many people say that they are "so in love" and yet have a hard relationship or one that doesn't work out past the first chemical high of the "honeymoon phase" or whatever you want to call that.
It so happens that this is the first of many various kinds of partnerings I've had, where I am very in love, and he also is. It's far more common for one or the other to be very in love, and the other not so much, if anyone is at all.
Talk of "soulmates" sounds so Disney. Not something that gives you much relationship credibility to me, at all. Don't expect anyone to forget that you're the same guy who arrived here asking, "how do I hit it, but still make sure I can quit it?" You are no relationship expert.
But I guess if you hang around here long enough you could become an expert on how NOT to have one.
But see, none of that long-arse screed I wrote before was about what motivates THIS relationship. It was why I bother to engage in them at all...and why he and I, as ours developed, made choices to escalate, such as "let's move in together" and "maybe we could get married." Yeah, we both like to be financially secure. So we're both helping each other do that. Shared goals. Good part of any long term committed relationship, if ya ask me.
Oh, but moving in together was not "easy" though. He lived as a bachelor in one place over 20 years, and he collects about a dozen different kinds of things. Lots of hard work going on there! But worth it, in the long run...
Like someone said earlier, marriage is not a chess game. I am not looking to win a match with my husband. I am looking for him to be a partner in life with me.
Sorry, does not compute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Oh, but moving in together was not "easy" though. He lived as a bachelor in one place over 20 years, and he collects about a dozen different kinds of things. Lots of hard work going on there! But worth it, in the long run...
Allow me to ask a personal question: what happened to your boyfriend's collections after you two moved in together? Because according to the media/society, the man's collections get thrown out or sold, under the pretext of him "growing up" . I have collections of my own, which is a BIG disincentive for me to allow a woman to move in with me.
Allow me to ask a personal question: what happened to your boyfriend's collections after you two moved in together? Because according to the media/society, the man's collections get thrown out or sold, under the pretext of him "growing up" . I have collections of my own, which is a BIG disincentive for me to allow a woman to move in with me.
Oh, he's still got all that stuff. He has talked about Ebaying some of it, but I haven't nudged him in that direction. Mostly he didn't have a clear grasp of exactly the volume of stuff he owned, until we had to move it...and then he was like "Wow. I'm not sure why I still have some of this..." But that's all him.
I like most of his collections, I think they're cool. We blended some of his stuff and mine in the main common-area of the house, we both collect McFarlane toys, and so some of his dragons now hang out with my dragons in the living room.
My nerdy collector guy, got himself a nerdy collector gal. I've got a giant "Vigo the Carpathian" painting in the living room and Invader Zim in the bathroom and GWAR stuff everywhere. What's some toys, D&D figs, and swords on the wall? It's great. Until we have to move...lol...*cringe*...oh, well.
The scenes in the "40 Year Old Virgin" movie where his friends told him to hide his collections to impress some woman actually made me angry.
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), why do people even bother with them? Work is hard. Financial planning is hard. Why do people complicate their lives even further? Are we masochists or just scared of going against the norm?
. I have collections of my own, which is a BIG disincentive for me to allow a woman to move in with me.
