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Fishbrains, I would genuinely love to read your answer to this. Not looking to debate it, just curious about your perspective.
Hi Pieroo,
Sorry, I overlooked your question as to how people would live more fulfilling lives as atheists.
My thoughts are related to the harm I have seen religion cause. I have an aunt who believed divorce was a sin, and stayed in a marriage with a physically abusive man for several years. I have a friend who hasn’t spoken to her parents in years, because her parents shunned her when she came out as a lesbian. I have friends who are struggling financially because they tithe 10% to their church. Other friends are unable to have a fully open relationship with their parents because they are afraid to reveal their atheism. A friend let her child die because she refused medical treatment on religious grounds. I know many people afraid of death because they are afraid of the consequences. I know people who were molested by priests.
None of these stories are unique to me, and you can find examples of these, and many more, online. I could provide many additional personal anecdotes. The common theme I see is religion interfering with otherwise reasonable people causing them to make bad decisions, detrimental to themselves and others.
I am not saying that an atheist society would be perfect. People can make bad decisions for any number of reasons, and predators will adapt and cover their behavior in other ways. But religion makes it so much easier, and provides many additional reasons, to corrupt people.
I do continue to pray for all individuals that visit here---many by name.
...and if they don't want you to?
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Why? The reason is still the same. I simply care. Yeah, I honestly do.
If you really did 'care', you'd have the decency to ask first and not do so if they didn't want you to.
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And, I believe one of the reasons God moved into my life as He did was in response to my prayer warrior mother that lifted up countless prayers for "bad boy me" back in the day.
One last item. I've been asked "What if you're wrong about this God of yours and Jesus...?" Easy answer. If I am, I'll go to my grave having lived a life of love and service (Yep, Old Cold. I don't just talk the talk) to others as I was able. I'll go with a peace in my spirit.
...and what if you are met with Ganesh and he's none too pleased that you've not been worshipping him all your life?
...and what if you are met with Ganesh and he's none too pleased that you've not been worshipping him all your life?
Rafius,
Ok, so I’ve never responded to one of your direct posts to me before. This is a first.
Further, I’ll admit…initially, my words were going to be quite different than this response is going to be. I waited to post anything. I’d learned the value of considering my words before opening my keyboard.
During that time I felt God saying into my spirit, “Before you respond, remember just what I’ve done for you in your life…and, further, remember that I love him every single bit as much as I love you…” The truth of those two thoughts quickly settled into my heart.
So…that being said, I will say this much.
I honestly never considered that anyone would be “offended” by my stating that I was praying for them. I mean, I couldn’t figure how anyone would dislike words of goodness, blessing, protection spoken over them and their families as being distasteful---even if they don’t buy into this “God Thing”.
Personally, I’d be surprised, yet totally appreciative, that anybody even cared enough about me to do as such...
But, that’s just me. To each their own. And, your point is taken.
Therefore, simply put, I ask you…Rafius, will you allow me to pray for you and your family? To speak those words of blessing and goodness over you and yours? If you’ll allow as such, I’ll equally allow you to continue thinking for me?
Therefore, simply put, I ask you…Rafius, will you allow me to pray for you and your family? To speak those words of blessing and goodness over you and yours? If you’ll allow as such, I’ll equally allow you to continue thinking for me?
Request denied.
...and you didn't answer the question about Ganesh.
Done. I will honor your desire. Yeah, I really will though it honestly pains me to do so.
Response concerning Ganesh? I didn't make mention of the video either...
I relayed the message I was supposed to relay. That's sufficient.
I still wish you well. I truly do. I can only hope that one day, you'll change your position and point of view. God does love and cherish you. He wants a relationship with you...desperately so. But, that's your choice.
Fair enough. For my part, I tend to be somewhat saddened by my friends who are religious. I cannot help but think that they would live more fulfilled, happier lives if they were atheists, and I do hope that they realize this one day. But I am not aggressive about it, limiting discussions of the topic to people and circumstances when it is mutually agreeable.
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Originally Posted by fishbrains
Hi Pieroo,
Sorry, I overlooked your question as to how people would live more fulfilling lives as atheists.
My thoughts are related to the harm I have seen religion cause. I have an aunt who believed divorce was a sin, and stayed in a marriage with a physically abusive man for several years. I have a friend who hasn’t spoken to her parents in years, because her parents shunned her when she came out as a lesbian. I have friends who are struggling financially because they tithe 10% to their church. Other friends are unable to have a fully open relationship with their parents because they are afraid to reveal their atheism. A friend let her child die because she refused medical treatment on religious grounds. I know many people afraid of death because they are afraid of the consequences. I know people who were molested by priests.
None of these stories are unique to me, and you can find examples of these, and many more, online. I could provide many additional personal anecdotes. The common theme I see is religion interfering with otherwise reasonable people causing them to make bad decisions, detrimental to themselves and others.
I am not saying that an atheist society would be perfect. People can make bad decisions for any number of reasons, and predators will adapt and cover their behavior in other ways. But religion makes it so much easier, and provides many additional reasons, to corrupt people.
Thanks Fishbrains.
I can also think of many anecdotes where certain beliefs about God caused harm, so we're on the same page with that.
Minus the harmful beliefs, I'm wondering if you can tell me how the absence of belief in God would lead someone to a more fulfilled and happier life? Again, I'm not looking to argue, just wanting to understand. Coming at it from that perspective, I'm certain that people who do not have a belief in God can be just as prone to other beliefs that are equally as harmful as some religious beliefs. It's not atheism, itself, that would allow someone to live a happier and more fulfilled life, then. Or would you disagree?
I honestly never considered that anyone would be “offended” by my stating that I was praying for them. I mean, I couldn’t figure how anyone would dislike words of goodness, blessing, protection spoken over them and their families as being distasteful---even if they don’t buy into this “God Thing”.
Speaking only for myself, I do not find it offensive. However, in the event I am on your list, I would prefer that you remove me and instead pray for the end of world hunger. I already have everything I need and more. And that way, if I am wrong and God really does exist and really does answer prayer, something worthwhile will have been accomplished.
Speaking only for myself, I do not find it offensive. However, in the event I am on your list, I would prefer that you remove me and instead pray for the end of world hunger. I already have everything I need and more. And that way, if I am wrong and God really does exist and really does answer prayer, something worthwhile will have been accomplished.
I could be wrong, but as I recall from an earlier post, Casual was specifically praying for people to have an experience of God rather than simply to be "blessed". I'm wondering if that is what caused some posters to respond negatively.
ETA: I searched the posts and I was only partially correct:
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Originally Posted by CasualVisitor
Now...I'm going to close my night by posting something I didn't think I would. In fact, I initially thought, "OH, no way will I POST THAT"
But...
This morning, during my prayer time, I was praying for many of you. Well, I actually prayed for every person that visits here but I called many out by name. I prayed a simple prayer...I Prayed "Lord, by intervention, interruption, or even intrusion...please move in their lives and show them a glimpse of You...just a glimpse"
During said prayer I felt a gentle nudging that simply said..."Share this on the Forum." And, there was the source of the NO WAY reaction. I kinda argued back. "Lord...ok, look, let me explain something to you. Many of those folks already think I'm crazy as it is...why throw fuel onto the fire? I don't want to post that..."
But, I'm posting. I lost the argument.
Also, one last thing. I added something later. I, obviously, don't know any of you. But, I asked the Lord to help you with anything you're struggling with, any family situation or illness, any hardship. I prayed that He bless and assist and just show up for you.
Now, some will think I'm posting this to show what a great guy I am and I'm trying to score some sort of silly points with you. Please, believe me, I was NOT going to post this as I mentioned above. But, I kept feeling the nudging so...well, there ya go.
It may mean nothing to any of you. If so, that's all good...I'm just doing what I think I was supposed to do. *shrugs helplessly* It's all I got...
I could be wrong, but as I recall from an earlier post, Casual was specifically praying for people to have an experience of God rather than simply to be "blessed". I'm wondering if that is what caused some posters to respond negatively.
I missed that part, thank you.
Though I will state, as I have stated before on these forums, that I would consider the end of world hunger to be proof that God exists and answers prayer.
Though I will state, as I have stated before on these forums, that I would consider the end of world hunger to be proof that God exists and answers prayer.
Sure. The end of all suffering would probably do it for most people. It's a perplexing problem/hurdle for anyone (believer or non) who requires whatever sentient entity might be the foundation or source of our reality to be omni-benevolent and omnipotent in order to be worthy of the title "God".
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It's a perplexing problem/hurdle for anyone (believer or non) who requires whatever sentient entity might be the foundation or source of our reality to be omni-benevolent and omnipotent in order to be worthy of the title "God".
