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Old 01-27-2009, 01:50 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,385,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb in VA View Post
Yes, the world is no longer perfect because of Adam & Eve's sin and people suffer and die as a result.
So as part of Adam and Eve's punishment, innocent children die slow painful deaths from starvation. Or is it just a horrible byproduct that God decided not to avoid?
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Wandering the halls aimlessly...Hello? Is anyone there?
307 posts, read 409,173 times
Reputation: 129
Smile Hmmmm....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComeBack_Kid View Post
I asked for logic, and you have offered none. WHY not the Disney World?! WHY DOES THIS WORLD NEED TO EXIST IF THERE IS A HEAVEN?! If god made us, the earth ,and the heavens, then why does this world need to exist. Kindly explain, following your own course of logic

Again, why?! Why does God need to test us, as you say? Why not just make us perfect? Why is he messing with us

I agree wholeheartedly, true that

Back to my question: WHY SHOULD WE WORSHIP OR RESPECT THAT?! Why does God punish this girl? What did she do? Why not just punish the evildoers of this world? Answer the question.

This disputes your previous sentence. Are you saying that we'll all be judged on our own actions, but we'll be punished with everyone else as collateral damage?!

Agreed, those who don't believe in your god are NOT OK with the slow, suffering, agonizing death of children. Boy ,we sure are a crazy bunch, huh? Its good you do believe so you think child starvation is cool tho

It was not a man-made calamity at all, it was a massive drought which killed tens of thousands. There were no men to blame, no grinch stealing food, no warlords stopping the UN from helping, it just was... By your logic, it sounds like GOD did it, right?
So God has no one to prosecute in his court for those deaths but himself

I'm glad you don't know how to: You basically said that child starvation is ok, because they'll go to heaven. WOuld you let this happen to your child because you know that I don't want anything to do with your logic or way of seeing things, and I hope my children never associate with people like you.

Thanks for proving my point
logic reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity; a particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference. (In otherwords, the inability to grasp that which cannot be reasoned by mortal man)

First things first, logic is a man made word....MAN MADE. This demonstrates mans need to know everything. To reason things out if you will. For folks such as yourself, it is difficult to grasp why God does what he does as you will never really comprehend the depth of the question you ask. It is physically impossible for anyone to know what Gods plans are at any given moment. If you look at history from a biblical standpoint he allowed chosen people of different vocations insight into small pieces of this complex yet simple puzzle we call life. For you to ask why he would allow such an atrocious thing to occur means that you are searching for a circumstance to provide validity to your already biased point. You provide negative circumstances but no positive circumstances. Fascinating yes, Logical? Nope.

I'm wondering why you didnt ask more rational questions like why the photographer didnt put the camera down and help this small child. I guess free will took over and the "Shot" was more important than that of a baby girl right? I think its conveinient that when someone finds evil or sadness in the world, they immediately point the finger at God and blame him for all the shortcomings of the world. The argument you want has been argued....logically for may years now. Neither side gives an inch and neither will concede. I've stated many times that having God in one's life brings hope, happiness and a promise that all the sacrifices you made in his name will be rewarded richly when the time comes to leave this this earth. Having God with you is like having a safety net and living by his word enables you to make decisions for the good of all, not just the few.

To logically explain why anything happens in and of itself is a question that has no answer. You know it, yet you find different ways to ask it. Why is a question you can ask about God a million times over and still never find the answer that pacifies people like you who dont want to or refuse to believe. If I say because scripture says so, then you challenge the authenticity of the scripture. Its really a never ending cycle. You either believe or you dont believe....period. I'll take my beliefs and my faith over that of a person who believes in nothing other than what they can see, feel, touch and own.

Why does a person have a conscience? Outside influence? Personal upbringing? How does one decide what is right and what is wrong? Let me guess its the "Standard of Society" that influences right and wrong behaviors right? I call it God...simple yet complex as it is.....its God.

The picture is tragic and sad, but there are just as many wonderous things being done in Gods name. If you truly are a logical person as you claim to be, perhaps you can look at the all the good being done and thank God once in a while rather than blaming him for all of the Human Race's shortcomings. The book is there, the knowledge is there...all you have to do is read and believe. Open your mind, your heart, and give it to God. I know you'll dissect, judge, and make malicious statements pertaining to my post. Thats ok, because i know that somewhere down the road God will reveal himself to you. Whether or not your receptive to his presence is up to you.

One last thing....

You really didnt prove any point except that you have a profound bitterness toward that which you do not understand and readily chastise those who stand firm on thier stance that God exists. I dont see what point was made as you have yet to disprove Gods existance. And so the cycle begins again....

Peace
Winter
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,962,318 times
Reputation: 6877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb in VA View Post
Yes, the world is no longer perfect because of Adam & Eve's sin and people suffer and die as a result.
Exactly! So that starving child is just getting what it deserves. Praise the Lord!
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:37 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,385,695 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterscorpion View Post
logic reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity; a particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference. (In otherwords, the inability to grasp that which cannot be reasoned by mortal man)

First things first, logic is a man made word....MAN MADE. This demonstrates mans need to know everything. To reason things out if you will. For folks such as yourself, it is difficult to grasp why God does what he does as you will never really comprehend the depth of the question you ask. It is physically impossible for anyone to know what Gods plans are at any given moment. If you look at history from a biblical standpoint he allowed chosen people of different vocations insight into small pieces of this complex yet simple puzzle we call life. For you to ask why he would allow such an atrocious thing to occur means that you are searching for a circumstance to provide validity to your already biased point. You provide negative circumstances but no positive circumstances. Fascinating yes, Logical? Nope.

I'm wondering why you didnt ask more rational questions like why the photographer didnt put the camera down and help this small child. I guess free will took over and the "Shot" was more important than that of a baby girl right? I think its conveinient that when someone finds evil or sadness in the world, they immediately point the finger at God and blame him for all the shortcomings of the world. The argument you want has been argued....logically for may years now. Neither side gives an inch and neither will concede. I've stated many times that having God in one's life brings hope, happiness and a promise that all the sacrifices you made in his name will be rewarded richly when the time comes to leave this this earth. Having God with you is like having a safety net and living by his word enables you to make decisions for the good of all, not just the few.

To logically explain why anything happens in and of itself is a question that has no answer. You know it, yet you find different ways to ask it. Why is a question you can ask about God a million times over and still never find the answer that pacifies people like you who dont want to or refuse to believe. If I say because scripture says so, then you challenge the authenticity of the scripture. Its really a never ending cycle. You either believe or you dont believe....period. I'll take my beliefs and my faith over that of a person who believes in nothing other than what they can see, feel, touch and own.

Why does a person have a conscience? Outside influence? Personal upbringing? How does one decide what is right and what is wrong? Let me guess its the "Standard of Society" that influences right and wrong behaviors right? I call it God...simple yet complex as it is.....its God.

The picture is tragic and sad, but there are just as many wonderous things being done in Gods name. If you truly are a logical person as you claim to be, perhaps you can look at the all the good being done and thank God once in a while rather than blaming him for all of the Human Race's shortcomings. The book is there, the knowledge is there...all you have to do is read and believe. Open your mind, your heart, and give it to God. I know you'll dissect, judge, and make malicious statements pertaining to my post. Thats ok, because i know that somewhere down the road God will reveal himself to you. Whether or not your receptive to his presence is up to you.

One last thing....

You really didnt prove any point except that you have a profound bitterness toward that which you do not understand and readily chastise those who stand firm on thier stance that God exists. I dont see what point was made as you have yet to disprove Gods existance. And so the cycle begins again....

Peace
Winter
I thought omnibenevolent meant always good. Or are you attributing the good things to god and the bad things to humans?
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Wandering the halls aimlessly...Hello? Is anyone there?
307 posts, read 409,173 times
Reputation: 129
Thumbs down Thats just sad....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Exactly! So that starving child is just getting what it deserves. Praise the Lord!
Sarcasm and jokes aside, the death of any child is a tragedy. I guess you have to have a conscience to see that.

I really chuckling....really.

Winter
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,962,318 times
Reputation: 6877
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterscorpion View Post
logic reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity; a particular system or codification of the principles of proof and inference. (In otherwords, the inability to grasp that which cannot be reasoned by mortal man)

First things first, logic is a man made word....MAN MADE. This demonstrates mans need to know everything. To reason things out if you will. For folks such as yourself, it is difficult to grasp why God does what he does as you will never really comprehend the depth of the question you ask. It is physically impossible for anyone to know what Gods plans are at any given moment. If you look at history from a biblical standpoint he allowed chosen people of different vocations insight into small pieces of this complex yet simple puzzle we call life. For you to ask why he would allow such an atrocious thing to occur means that you are searching for a circumstance to provide validity to your already biased point. You provide negative circumstances but no positive circumstances. Fascinating yes, Logical? Nope.

I'm wondering why you didnt ask more rational questions like why the photographer didnt put the camera down and help this small child. I guess free will took over and the "Shot" was more important than that of a baby girl right? I think its conveinient that when someone finds evil or sadness in the world, they immediately point the finger at God and blame him for all the shortcomings of the world. The argument you want has been argued....logically for may years now. Neither side gives an inch and neither will concede. I've stated many times that having God in one's life brings hope, happiness and a promise that all the sacrifices you made in his name will be rewarded richly when the time comes to leave this this earth. Having God with you is like having a safety net and living by his word enables you to make decisions for the good of all, not just the few.

To logically explain why anything happens in and of itself is a question that has no answer. You know it, yet you find different ways to ask it. Why is a question you can ask about God a million times over and still never find the answer that pacifies people like you who dont want to or refuse to believe. If I say because scripture says so, then you challenge the authenticity of the scripture. Its really a never ending cycle. You either believe or you dont believe....period. I'll take my beliefs and my faith over that of a person who believes in nothing other than what they can see, feel, touch and own.

Why does a person have a conscience? Outside influence? Personal upbringing? How does one decide what is right and what is wrong? Let me guess its the "Standard of Society" that influences right and wrong behaviors right? I call it God...simple yet complex as it is.....its God.

The picture is tragic and sad, but there are just as many wonderous things being done in Gods name. If you truly are a logical person as you claim to be, perhaps you can look at the all the good being done and thank God once in a while rather than blaming him for all of the Human Race's shortcomings. The book is there, the knowledge is there...all you have to do is read and believe. Open your mind, your heart, and give it to God. I know you'll dissect, judge, and make malicious statements pertaining to my post. Thats ok, because i know that somewhere down the road God will reveal himself to you. Whether or not your receptive to his presence is up to you.

One last thing....

You really didnt prove any point except that you have a profound bitterness toward that which you do not understand and readily chastise those who stand firm on thier stance that God exists. I dont see what point was made as you have yet to disprove Gods existance. And so the cycle begins again....

Peace
Winter
Logic is the result of thinking. Not everyone can "make" logic.
You assume that those who question god (and his motives) can never fully comprehend their own questions?
The questions about god reveal the inconsistencies about "god's word".
How many times haven't you heard that god values all life? The photos reveals the opposite. That's just one inconsistency.
To briefly summarize the believers' posts it seems that the situation in the photo is justified and should be accepted as the conditions of a loving god.
Also, the evasion of the question, but that is typical of those who believe in god.
Nothing new, even today there are many people who admire Hitler, Stalin, Pinochet, Pol Pot and other tyrants. These people will also vigorously defend everything their hero has done.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,962,318 times
Reputation: 6877
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterscorpion View Post
Sarcasm and jokes aside, the death of any child is a tragedy. I guess you have to have a conscience to see that.

I really chuckling....really.

Winter
I'll compare my conscience to that of god any day.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 86,319,047 times
Reputation: 39688
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Do you really want to discuss it? Or are you just looking to attack?
Was wondering the same thing. If he really wanted to discuss there are those who could help him to understand. Sadly you can tell from his posts his mind is made up on the subject
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,043 posts, read 30,779,078 times
Reputation: 12223
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains View Post
Was wondering the same thing. If he really wanted to discuss there are those who could help him to understand. Sadly you can tell from his posts his mind is made up on the subject
So then, please explain to us all why God forsakes this child and the millions of other innocent children just like her. 300 million children go to bed hungry every single day and nearly a billion people today are actually starving as I type...I await your explanation of God's hand in this.
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Wandering the halls aimlessly...Hello? Is anyone there?
307 posts, read 409,173 times
Reputation: 129
Default Here we go

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
I thought omnibenevolent meant always good. Or are you attributing the good things to god and the bad things to humans?
Although illogical and improbable from your standpoint, the Devil Exists as does Evil and all its influences. (I can here the rebuttals now...lol) Nonetheless we as humans "Choose" which path we take in life. It has also been proven time and time again that the actions of the few affect the lives of the many, sometimes for long periods of time.

Lets use this as an analogy shall we?
Theres a candy bar on the counter of a store. You want that candy bar, yet you know you dont have the money to pay for it. You know its wrong to take it, yet you think you can get away with it. Which way do you go? God says that stealing is wrong, yet the Devil tempts you. Ok so you take it, get caught and now your parents are involved (Relax all you over analyzing folks, this is all hypothetical) as are the police. Your parents raised you to believe that stealing is wrong. The shows on television show what happens to those that steal. Yet you took it even though it wasnt yours. Is it Gods fault that you stole the candy or yours? You knew the consequences, you knew the possible outcomes, and you knew that it was morally wrong. God gave us free will my freind. He also gave us all the tools necessary to make rational decisions for the good of mankind. Whether you use those tools for the right reasons is totally up to you.

Its harder to love another human being than it is to hate him. Ever wondered why? God is present in everything and everywhere. He speaks to those who listen. If you know anything about scripture read the old testament and you will see several times where he commanded different people to kill women, children and animals. Why was this the case? I'm still trying to read and understand. Am I saying that he makes children suffer unnecessarily? No, I am not saying that either. What I am saying is that that child died as a result of poor decisions made on the goverments part. Their lack of action and concern and in many cases greed, caused many hundreds of children to die. Lets say they would have lived...what enviroment would they have grown up in? Slavery, sexual abuse, tribal war, filthy drinking water and bad living conditions? Was God really the culprit here or was it mortal man? We have choices.....God gave us them. Its either the right one or the wrong one.

God is Good All the Time! All the Time God is Good.

Humans make the mistakes...not God.

Sorry if thats not the answer your looking for.

Peace
Winter
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