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Old 08-13-2012, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Yucaipa, California
9,894 posts, read 22,031,991 times
Reputation: 6853

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The city of yucaipa, ca has a p/t job opening (20 hrs week, max 900 hrs a year) & the job pays $8.00 hr (cheap bastards). The duties range from weed pulling to concrete work & ALOT of other job duties. The crappy city mgr earns 197k a yr, code enforcement earns 65k a yr & the fire captain earn 109k a yr + full benefits. The police earn a pretty good living as well.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:11 PM
 
379 posts, read 1,401,578 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Suggesting that people are fooling themselves is not a valid reason why the free market may or may not be a sham. Have you considered justifying your claims?

Free market:

I, a small business entrepreneur, decide to one day open up my own shop. I have the idea for a product or service and raise the capital needed. I employ people and I make sure they are well compensated. I don't take a big of a salary because I know as a business person, it is better for me to keep the money in the company. Business is great and I expand (whether it is with hiring more people or expand the company in general).

After some time, a huge corporation sees what I have done and decides to compete with me. This corporation has resources that I do not. It takes my idea and business model and poaches some of my employees. They advertise like crazy and sells my original product or service cheaper than I did. My sales take a hit.

Because of this, I have to try to make my company survive. I'm forced to layoff employees and cut wages. I then have to scale back my company. In the meantime, the people I laid off are looking for jobs and since they're desperate for a job, they go with the corporation that offers them far less than what I paid them. This corporation now knows that it can get laborers for cheap and decides to lower the wages of or even layoff the employees that were poached from me so the execs can pocket the money. These people try to come back to me but I am unable to hire them. In the meantime, my sales continue to suffer and I am eventually forced to close shop.

The corporation has cornered the market and left many people unemployed. These unemployed people have no money to spend and the corporation's profits decline. To compensate, the corporation lays off even more people and repeating the cycle until everything crashes.


--


That is the free market at work. A market where it is a constant race to the bottom so those at the top of the pyramid can line their pockets off the backs of others.

It eventually fails and most people are don't realize it until it's too late.

The above scenario should be enough to justify how a free market can go wrong.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:10 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,576,036 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamrollinglow View Post
Free market:

I, a small business entrepreneur, decide to one day open up my own shop. I have the idea for a product or service and raise the capital needed. I employ people and I make sure they are well compensated. I don't take a big of a salary because I know as a business person, it is better for me to keep the money in the company. Business is great and I expand (whether it is with hiring more people or expand the company in general).

After some time, a huge corporation sees what I have done and decides to compete with me. This corporation has resources that I do not. It takes my idea and business model and poaches some of my employees. They advertise like crazy and sells my original product or service cheaper than I did. My sales take a hit.

Because of this, I have to try to make my company survive. I'm forced to layoff employees and cut wages. I then have to scale back my company. In the meantime, the people I laid off are looking for jobs and since they're desperate for a job, they go with the corporation that offers them far less than what I paid them. This corporation now knows that it can get laborers for cheap and decides to lower the wages of or even layoff the employees that were poached from me so the execs can pocket the money. These people try to come back to me but I am unable to hire them. In the meantime, my sales continue to suffer and I am eventually forced to close shop.

The corporation has cornered the market and left many people unemployed. These unemployed people have no money to spend and the corporation's profits decline. To compensate, the corporation lays off even more people and repeating the cycle until everything crashes.


--


That is the free market at work. A market where it is a constant race to the bottom so those at the top of the pyramid can line their pockets off the backs of others.

It eventually fails and most people are don't realize it until it's too late.

The above scenario should be enough to justify how a free market can go wrong.

You do know there's anti-trust law in place to prevent this right? Also since you think it doesn't work, what's your idea of fixing it then?
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:20 PM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,154,196 times
Reputation: 12921
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamrollinglow View Post
Free market:

I, a small business entrepreneur, decide to one day open up my own shop. I have the idea for a product or service and raise the capital needed. I employ people and I make sure they are well compensated. I don't take a big of a salary because I know as a business person, it is better for me to keep the money in the company. Business is great and I expand (whether it is with hiring more people or expand the company in general).

After some time, a huge corporation sees what I have done and decides to compete with me. This corporation has resources that I do not. It takes my idea and business model and poaches some of my employees. They advertise like crazy and sells my original product or service cheaper than I did. My sales take a hit.

Because of this, I have to try to make my company survive. I'm forced to layoff employees and cut wages. I then have to scale back my company. In the meantime, the people I laid off are looking for jobs and since they're desperate for a job, they go with the corporation that offers them far less than what I paid them. This corporation now knows that it can get laborers for cheap and decides to lower the wages of or even layoff the employees that were poached from me so the execs can pocket the money. These people try to come back to me but I am unable to hire them. In the meantime, my sales continue to suffer and I am eventually forced to close shop.

The corporation has cornered the market and left many people unemployed. These unemployed people have no money to spend and the corporation's profits decline. To compensate, the corporation lays off even more people and repeating the cycle until everything crashes.


--


That is the free market at work. A market where it is a constant race to the bottom so those at the top of the pyramid can line their pockets off the backs of others.

It eventually fails and most people are don't realize it until it's too late.

The above scenario should be enough to justify how a free market can go wrong.
Howard Johnson, Ben & Jerry's, OxyClean, InstaGram. Those examples should be enough to justify how successful the free market is.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:32 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,576,036 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Howard Johnson, Ben & Jerry's, OxyClean, InstaGram. Those examples should be enough to justify how successful the free market is.
Do I need to bring up Netflix and how it brought down Blockbuster? How about Amazon that bankrupted nearly all large book corporation and electronics stores including Barnes and Nobles, Bestbuy, CompUSA etc. etc. etc.?
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:45 PM
 
810 posts, read 1,808,832 times
Reputation: 1617
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Do I need to bring up Netflix and how it brought down Blockbuster? How about Amazon that bankrupted nearly all large book corporation and electronics stores including Barnes and Nobles, Bestbuy, CompUSA etc. etc. etc.?
Borders going bankrupt and out of business was a result of their own bad business decisions, the death knell being when they sold their online division to Amazon way back in 2001.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:53 PM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,747,048 times
Reputation: 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Howard Johnson, Ben & Jerry's, OxyClean, InstaGram. Those examples should be enough to justify how successful the free market is.
Howard Johnson was a huge benefactor of the government subsidized interstate highway.

Ben & Jerry learned how to make ice cream from a government-subsidized school, then gave away their ice ream for free.

OxyClean and Orange Glo were acquired by Church & Dwight. The father of Armand Hammer (Arm & Hammer) was a staunch Socialist, and the logo for Arm & Hammer was the logo for the Socialist Party in remembrance of him. Also, the company has oly been based in very progressive US states (Connecticut, Massachusetts and New Jersey).

Instagram was acquird by Facebook.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:56 PM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,747,048 times
Reputation: 5669
Fact of the matter is America has a mixed-economy. It's not purely Socialist or Capitalist. From the 1950s-1970s, it was more Socialist than Capitalist. From the 1980s until now, it has been more Capitalist than Socialist.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:37 PM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,154,196 times
Reputation: 12921
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Do I need to bring up Netflix and how it brought down Blockbuster? How about Amazon that bankrupted nearly all large book corporation and electronics stores including Barnes and Nobles, Bestbuy, CompUSA etc. etc. etc.?
Blockbuster, B&N , etc are not small businesses. Your post is proof of freemarket working. Consumers shop at Netflix and Amazon because they offer a better service. Blockbuster mimicked Netflix's business model and did not succeed.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:45 PM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,747,048 times
Reputation: 5669
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Consumers shop at Netflix and Amazon because they offer a better service. Blockbuster mimicked Netflix's business model and did not succeed.
Consumers shop with Netflix and Amazon because they offer goods at cheaper prices, since they don't have the overhead of operating brick & mortar stores like Blockbuster. It has nothing to do with their level of service.

But in any event, what do management decisions have to do with an employee working for $8/hr?
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