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So a violent felon should have legal and easy access to firearms, correct? That is your position?
Violent felons should never be released from prison if there is a concern that they will commit a violent crime again necessitating that they not be allowed to purchase ammunition.
If they are not a risk then their rights should be restored.
If there is a risk then they should not be released.
So let me get this straight. You feel that ANY restriction on who can own a firearm is some kind of infringement on the 2nd amendment??
Don't you feel the same way about your FIRST amendment? How do you feel if the State monitor and track every post you've made?
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A violent felon who just shot three people and went to prison for 20 years...you're ok with that person carrying a firearm?
There's already existing laws preventing felon from owning firearms. ENFORCE EXISTING LAWS!!! Stop making stupid new useless laws and make lawful gun owners' life difficult.
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There are restrictions on the 1st amendment too. Especially in my case. "As a matter of national policy, the United States Navy does not discuss submarine operations". If I say more than that regarding certain topics, NCIS will come for me and I will be charged with treason. All rights have some kind of restriction on them.
Yeah, now add another law to track & monitor your speech. I can see how that will bother you.
This law doesn't do anything to prevent you from buying ammunition, as long as you're not a felon. You just do an instant NICS background check just like you would to buy a firearm. I don't see the problem.
It adds costs and inconvenience to every single law abiding person. That's not the big deal, it's because it's STUPID. Name one thing this new law will do that is measurable to stop shootings. Don't use words like maybe, might, could, perhaps......
Because you will not be able to. Any person denied purchasing ammo can purchase everything to reload without any stupid BGC.
No felon that know's they are a felon will even bother with this and they'll order off the internet and have it sent to their house for under 100 bucks.
There are laws and there are stupid laws. This one ranks up there with micro-stamping.
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
4,375 posts, read 4,073,220 times
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Originally Posted by BennyPhoenix
Violent felons should never be released from prison if there is a concern that they will commit a violent crime again necessitating that they not be allowed to purchase ammunition.
What? So life in prison for armed robbery?
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Laws such as these only punish good people.
Laws against felons having access to firearms only punish good people? How does that work?
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
4,375 posts, read 4,073,220 times
Reputation: 2158
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Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer
It adds costs and inconvenience to every single law abiding person.
Oh, how terrible, you had to swipe your ID to purchase ammo. I'm so sad for you. That's such a horrible sacrifice! Oh, the humanity! It's so terrible, you're making greater sacrifices then our men and women in harm's way in Afghanistan! I feel so bad for you! It is horrible that you have to swipe your ID to purchase ammo!
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That's not the big deal, it's because it's STUPID. Name one thing this new law will do that is measurable to stop shootings.
In the past, a felon could just go into walmart and buy some ammo, no questions asked. Even though it is already illegal for them to have it, as a felon. The new law forces them to go on the black market.
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Because you will not be able to. Any person denied purchasing ammo can purchase everything to reload without any stupid BGC.
In theory, yes. You can buy brass and lead, you guy can buy a machine to make a bullet, you can put the gunpowder in there. But I don't see a common gangbanger knowing how to do that, nor do I see one of these psychos who do mass shootings being able to do that. And the tighter we make the system, the harder it will be for them to buy the ammunition off the black market.
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No felon that know's they are a felon will even bother with this and they'll order off the internet and have it sent to their house for under 100 bucks.
Can't be sent to California without a BGC. They'll have to drive to a neighboring state.
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There are laws and there are stupid laws. This one ranks up there with micro-stamping.
Micro stamping helps law enforcement too. That's also a good idea. What, do you plan on murdering people with your firearm, and you don't want the bullets to be traced to your firearm? Or you aren't responsible with your weapons, and you fear that they will be stolen, and you don't trust yourself to report that they were stolen?
Last edited by neutrino78x; 06-16-2019 at 12:26 PM..
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
4,375 posts, read 4,073,220 times
Reputation: 2158
Quote:
Originally Posted by HB2HSV
Don't you feel the same way about your FIRST amendment? How do you feel if the State monitor and track every post you've made?
I told you, they already do. And I knew that long before Edward Snowden, and it has never bothered me. Given the need to know I had when in the military, I would be surprised if it's not still being monitored. Even if its not, just posting "I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of a nuclear weapon aboard the USS Florida at any time" most likely activates an algorithm on a computer somewhere. I can talk about day to day life on a submarine but I can't talk about what we actually DO other than to say "as a matter of national policy, the United States Navy does not discuss submarine operations". Other things have a 70 year limitation, for example I'm supposed to wait until 70 years have passed since the day I left before I can discuss where any given machine is located relative to other machines in the Engine Room. So it stands to reason that the computers are still monitoring what I say on the telephone and what I post.
Look, ALL rights have limitations. The 1st Amendment says you have a right "peaceably to assemble", yet you still need to get a permit to march down the street.
And of course there is the famous example that you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.
The state has a compelling interest to make sure that the wrong people are not getting access to firearms. So therefore we can't allow rapists and murders to purchase them legally, even though the 2nd amendment implies an individual right (I, along with 80+ percent of Americans, support the individual right to own a firearm).
Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, con-cealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of fire-arms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.
Scalia is simply explaining that all rights have limitations, or at least most do. Your rights are limited by my rights and the interest of the State.
hb2hsv continues:
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There's already existing laws preventing felon from owning firearms. ENFORCE EXISTING LAWS!!! Stop making stupid new useless laws and make lawful gun owners' life difficult.
You're contradicting yourself. You agree that the law already says a felon can't own a firearm or ammunition. Yet, you don't want us to check people who purchase said items, to verify that they are not, in fact, felons. How are we supposed to enforce it, in your view?
Last edited by neutrino78x; 06-16-2019 at 12:24 PM..
Oh, how terrible, you had to swipe your ID to purchase ammo. I'm so sad for you. That's such a horrible sacrifice! Oh, the humanity! It's so terrible, you're making greater sacrifices then our men and women in harm's way in Afghanistan! I feel so bad for you! It is horrible that you have to swipe your ID to purchase ammo!
In the past, a felon could just go into walmart and buy some ammo, no questions asked. Even though it is already illegal for them to have it, as a felon. The new law forces them to go on the black market.
In theory, yes. You can buy brass and lead, you guy can buy a machine to make a bullet, you can put the gunpowder in there. But I don't see a common gangbanger knowing how to do that, nor do I see one of these psychos who do mass shootings being able to do that. And the tighter we make the system, the harder it will be for them to buy the ammunition off the black market.
Can't be sent to California without a BGC. They'll have to drive to a neighboring state.
Micro stamping helps law enforcement too. That's also a good idea. What, do you plan on murdering people with your firearm, and you don't want the bullets to be traced to your firearm? Or you aren't responsible with your weapons, and you fear that they will be stolen, and you don't trust yourself to report that they were stolen?
Typical of someone with views because it doesn't affect you. You'd rather back a stupid law rather than put a second of thought into how it could possibly make sense, or in this case, not.
Reloading is not difficult. There is no "in theory". Even you could probably do it without a problem. Stop with the black market garbage because they can have all they need sent to their door. The lee classic loader is a whopping 28 dollars and the videos are all over youtube.
Anyone going to the extent of buying ammo for a stolen gun isn't going to stop because they can't get it at walmart. If anyone believes this they are far more dumb than we ever expected.
Of course you would like micro-stamping. I'll just wait for you to leave some brass at the range, take it and leave it at the spot of the next shooting.
Plus, if some bangers are too stupid to reload they can bring in ammo by the pallet from AZ and NV. Another dumb law. No one checks at the border.
Might, maybe, could....typical leftist crap. You'd be better off trying to use a crystal ball. The LV shooter was into reloading.
I told you, they already do. And I knew that long before Edward Snowden, and it has never bothered me. Given the need to know I had when in the military, I would be surprised if it's not still being monitored. Even if its not, just posting "I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of a nuclear weapon aboard the USS Florida at any time" most likely activates an algorithm on a computer somewhere. I can talk about day to day life on a submarine but I can't talk about what we actually DO other than to say "as a matter of national policy, the United States Navy does not discuss submarine operations". Other things have a 70 year limitation, for example I'm supposed to wait until 70 years have passed since the day I left before I can discuss where any given machine is located relative to other machines in the Engine Room. So it stands to reason that the computers are still monitoring what I say on the telephone and what I post.
Look, ALL rights have limitations. The 1st Amendment says you have a right "peaceably to assemble", yet you still need to get a permit to march down the street.
And of course there is the famous example that you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater.
You're missing the key point here. I have DoD security clearance. I know what can be discussed and what can not (with the exception of Hillary). You're preaching to the choir.
Your example is also a poor one. FIRST amendment is protected under the Constitution. Serving in the military with limited speech is NOT protected under the Constitution. To serve is a "privilege" and not a "right". You agreed to the terms when you entered the service and you can be prosecuted if you violate the terms.
This law regulates EVERY TIME you buy ammo. This is equivalent to EVERY TIME you post, the State of California will track and giver you "permission" to post. Sounds "innocent" enough, right? What's your objection of the State monitor and control your speech?
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The state has a compelling interest to make sure that the wrong people are not getting access to firearms. So therefore we can't allow rapists and murders to purchase them legally, even though the 2nd amendment implies an individual right (I, along with 80+ percent of Americans, support the individual right to own a firearm).
Scalia is simply explaining that all rights have limitations, or at least most do. Your rights are limited by my rights and the interest of the State.
Agreed. The key word is "firearm", not "ammo".
Let's call it what it is. The law is the State of California attempt to make it difficult for millions of legal gun owners of California (VOTERS) to buy ammo. It's another attempt to push its gun control agenda.
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hb2hsv continues:
You're contradicting yourself. You agree that the law already says a felon can't own a firearm or ammunition. Yet, you don't want us to check people who purchase said items, to verify that they are not, in fact, felons. How are we supposed to enforce it, in your view?
It's a slippery slope when it comes to regulate the sales ammo. This is another example of government overreach in the name of "we want to make sure …." by over-regulations.
If this were any other issues, you would have agree with my position. For example, how about to regulate the sale of alcohol with background check? By gawd, we MUST stop drunk drivers from killing innocent soccer moms! Regulate your speech? Gawd forbid. This is America!
What happens if the new ammo law doesn't have any effect on crime?
More laws, or repeal it?
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