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You know that's something I've always wondered about.....why does Satan, knowing full well God's plan for him in the end, continue to wreak havoc and evil? Does he know something that we don't? Any thoughts?
C.S. Lewis wrote, "The greatest surprise for Satan will occur when he learns that he had been perfectly doing the will of God all along."
UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – MINNIE ALBERTSON
Salvation is for angels also. ‘All things were created by Him, and for Him’ (Col. 1:16).
‘For Thy pleasure they are and were created (Rev. 4:11). So He ‘reconciles all things unto Himself, whether they be on earth, or things in the heavens (Col. 1:16-21).
Even the devil is not too evil to be corrected. Note who he belongs to, as well as those he deceives. ‘The deceived and the deceiver are His’ (Job 12:16). (Job 12:16). (end quote)
“God delights to reconcile all, whether those on the earth, or those in the heavens (Col. 1:20). Therefore there is no more reason to suppose that Satan is not included therein than that any other certain creature is not included therein. Therefore it must be that that notable creature who had rightly long been termed “the Adversary,” is very much included in the reconciliation of the universe, at which time this title (“Adversary” or “Satan”) necessarily will no longer apply, since he will be reconciled and be at peace.”
Jim Coram, UNSEARCHABLE RICHES, March 2005.
“Ah, I long intently for that day when even the devil himself shall put away his pitchfork, hang up his horns, and come humbly and brokenly to the Father's house! Does that startle you? How else could it be in that glad day when the Christ has finally RECONCILED ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH, including all the PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS OF THE HEAVENLY SPHERE!”
RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS – J. Preston Eby Reconciliation in the Heavens
THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL – PAUL SIEGVOLCK
“Col. 1: 16-20 teaches us the extent of the reconciliation made by Christ, namely, that it extends itself over the whole creation. Therefore the fallen angels must also necessarily have their share in it, for they do incontestably belong to the invisible things created by Christ, and consequently to all things including the things in the heavens.
‘Jehovah is good to all: and His tender mercies are over all His works.’ Psalm 145:9
In this passage we are plainly told that the mercy of God, or His tender love, does not only extend itself to men, but universally towards all creatures that have their being and stand in need of mercy; and consequently also towards the fallen angels; which tender love of God must necessarily at last effect or bring about the restoration of all corrupt creatures, for it is not a weak or faint, but an almighty love.” (end quote)
Personally, I believe the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action among the celestial will occur when Satan bows in love and admiration in front of his Saviour Jesus Christ.
Why do anything if God has this great plan for us all?
Free will? Nope, what you do and say is already determined by God.
...
Yeah. Right. Excuse me while I go bash my head in at the sheer stupidity of this thread:
I like the way Martin Zender responds to that reaction.
“We all have wills, they are just not free.
Then why do we even exist, we might ask? Why do our wills exist? Is God playing chess with Himself? Why does He even need us? Why does He bother letting us think that we’re free?
I think it is in this perceived realm of freedom that we live and learn. God has given us the gift of NOT FEELING HIS CONTROL, and it is this gift that allows us to struggle with decisions, suffer for mistakes, and revel in the overcoming of obstacles.
It is this gift that allows us to turn to Him with tears both of sorrow and of joy.
I think the idea is to bring us in humble adoration to His feet. If it takes a sovereign God to assure that we come to this blessed place, then let’s let Him be sovereign—at the same time reveling in our perceived (but not actual) freedom.” (end quote)
I think that negative experiences work into us the motivation to choose differently in the future.
I like the way Martin Zender responds to that reaction.
“We all have wills, they are just not free.
Then why do we even exist, we might ask? Why do our wills exist? Is God playing chess with Himself? Why does He even need us? Why does He bother letting us think that we’re free?
I think it is in this perceived realm of freedom that we live and learn. God has given us the gift of NOT FEELING HIS CONTROL, and it is this gift that allows us to struggle with decisions, suffer for mistakes, and revel in the overcoming of obstacles.
It is this gift that allows us to turn to Him with tears both of sorrow and of joy.
I think the idea is to bring us in humble adoration to His feet. If it takes a sovereign God to assure that we come to this blessed place, then let’s let Him be sovereign—at the same time reveling in our perceived (but not actual) freedom.” (end quote)
I think that negative experiences work into us the motivation to choose differently in the future.
Hey man, believe what you want to believe. More power to you to be subservient to a being who has the power to fix a lot of things but willingly chooses not to. Some deity.
Me and my free will (or is that My free will and I?) are going to live a life not bound by the tenants of religion or some story that's supposed to scare me.
You religious folk just make me laugh. A lot. At your so called beliefs and viewpoints. Like this:
The Hebrew word "sheol" means grave, and in Jewish thought was where the bodies were stacked up. I Genesis, God tells Adam "You are dust, and to dust you will return" Hence the ancient Jewish belief that there was no afterlife.
Those Hellenized Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew into the Greek of the Septuagint used the word "hades" for "sheol" because it was close enough, a place of darkness where the poor souls were gathered for who knows what purpose. In the Odyssey, Odysseus travels to Hades to seek wisdom from the long dead Tiresias, and while there encounters some of his buddies from Trojan War days. I seem to recall some Greek mythology which spoke of those souls drinking of the waters of oblivion, wiping their memories so they could be reincarnated in innocence.
If one studies based on context, one can see an evolution in thought regarding underworld and afterlife. This leads to the concept of "purgatory" in Hellenistic thought, and the use of the Lazarus and the Rich Man story in Luke, a story of cleansing and hope for redemption.
Any case, Greek mythology also presents Tartarus, a place where "some" evil people are punished eternally. Prometheus, Sisyphus, Tantalus, for example. But almost all dead souls are free of the torments of Tartarus, and merely hang out in eternal gloom apparently. I believe it was Achilles who tells Odysseus that he would rather be the lowest slave in Persia and alive, than be there in Hades eternally.
I have this argument with Christians all the time: there is no hell nor the concept of hell in the modern Christian view to be found in the Old Testament, and that if their translations contain the word hell in the OT then their translations are wrong. Ask any rabbi. I find it amazing that most Christians take th position that the translators of KJV and just about every other modern translation take the position that modern Christians know more about the OT than do Jewish scholars and rabbis.
My apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in this thread. I am enjoying catching up.
Let's not forget about the Hebraic Idioms used throughout the NT...
The scriptures never mentioned the Toyota automoble company, yet Toyota exists...
There's a lot the scriptures don't mention...the scripture never taught us how to perform algebra...yet algebra exists...
The scriptures are not all of God, not even...
The scriptures never mentioned the internet or computer science or vaccines...
There's a ton of things God did not share with us in scripture...because scriptures aim is very narrow...
It deals in morality, or mans relationship towards God...and that's about it...don't get me wrong, that's a lot...but to act as if we can't think or ponder outside of scripture is silly...
At least in my view...sorry if I offended you...
Not at alll...You have misunderstood my statement...Yes, the scope of the scriptures is narrow in a sense that they have to do with creation, fall and redemption...But also it is a guidebook for healthy living, developing a good character, etc...What I meant by 'undue speculation' was for instance, It states that if you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart you shall be saved...Saved from what?...The wrath of Yehovaw...We know this from within the confines of Holy Scripture...But, what is we would pray that the Satan would repent and be saved?...What if we could speak with him and convince him of the error of his ways?...Then according to that scripture verse, he could be saved...But, what does the Scriptures state about him?...There are many that believe that Yeshua won't return until WE have converted the world and made it a better place...Is there Scripture to support this or is it merely 'undue speculation'?...Do you better understand what I stated?...I am not referring to the likes of the Amish and other sects that say If technology is not in the scriptures then we are not to have it...for even Einstein credited Yehovaw with his ideas...For a good example of this take a look at Post #237 by Tutt...There is 'undue speculation' going on there...Based off of regarding one idea of what reconcile means, it does not always mean a good thing for those involved in the reconcilation process....
You religious folk just make me laugh. A lot. At your so called beliefs and viewpoints. Like this:
But you were just banging your head against the wall.......
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