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I am with you pinacled, Hes tells us that we have to warn the sinner, otherwise we are quilty. If they do not listen, it is their fault. I am not coming against Catholics, I tell them that to bow down before images is a sin of idolatry. That is all. Why do they get so abset? If they are right and I am wrong, go on in your believe, what they do anyway. But this is a forum in the 21 century and not in the middle ages, where they would burn us at the stake. Praise God they have lost their wordly power. We have to stand what we think is the truth and back it up with scripture. Not every Catholic bows down before statues. There is nothing wrong to honor Mary. The way they do it is wrong. Their faith in Mary is wrong. Faith in Jesus only counts. In the case of Janelle, she is the one preaching in this OP, I think I remember that she has a big statue with a snake under her feed in her livingroom, which she imagines is the mother of Jesus. And I am convinced that she bows down before that image. In that light all the arguments about prayer and worship and asking for intercession are meaningless, they want to sidetrack us.
No, you are wrong, I do not bow before that statue. You must have missed the scripture study about the new Eve, which is Mary crushing the head of the snake, which is Satan when she brought Jesus into the world. The statue is just that, showing Mary crushing the head of Satan. A very good thing. Stop convincing yourself of silly things, you are wrong.
hi Janelle
I read your thought how praying isn't necessarily worshiping and praying to saints is never worship. What are your thoughts on...
The definitions of worship are:
- the act of showing respect and love for a godespecially by praying with other people who believe in the same god, the act of worshipping God or a god, excessive admiration for someone.
The definition of prayer is:
Prayer is an act that seeks to activate a rapport with a deity, an object of worship, or a spiritual entity through deliberate communication.
So referencing both definitions against each other do you still think that praying isn't worshiping? You mentioned some religions teach one thing but other teach another but we both agree the bible says there would be false teachers so who is correct? What does the bible, which I think we can both agree is what we should reference for truth, have to say?
God shows early in the bible at Exodus 34:14 and Exodus 20:4-5 we have one God we should worship and even says he's a jealous God where to bow down, worship (or prayer) to anyone or anything is idolatry and he hates. Some even make the mistake of praying to Jesus but at 1 Tim 2:5 it shows Jesus is our mediator in which forgiveness is possible, but we pray through him but direct our prayers ONLY to God almighty. So how do both angels and even one who many call a saint feel about this?
Bibles thought on angel worship Colossians 2:18 "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind."
Angels response being worshiped at Rev 19:10 "At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus."
Notice Peter's, who ones reference as a saint, response when Cornelius tried to bow at Acts 10:25-27 "As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”
I have already answered all these questions and even linked to videos explaining it. WE DO NOT WORSHIP ANYONE OR ANYTHING EXCEPT GOD. I don't know how to make it any clearer.
You think prayer is only worship, many religions think of prayer as both as in addition to asking for intersessions. So if someone asks you to pray for them, you think you would be the intercessor between them and God? If so then you need to stop praying for people.
No, you are wrong, I do not bow before that statue. You must have missed the scripture study about the new Eve, which is Mary crushing the head of the snake, which is Satan when she brought Jesus into the world. The statue is just that, showing Mary crushing the head of Satan. A very good thing. Stop convincing yourself of silly things, you are wrong.
You do not bow before that statue I have made out of it, you bow to honor Mary, is that right? We know already that Mary is not your Goddess and therefore no idol. I exapt that. You believe that Mary is the new Eve that crushed Satan's head and is therefore co-redeemer with Christ, right? But inspite of your wrong believe you have transgressed God's law by putting an graven image in your livingroom. Your imagination that this is Mary is wrong, she is in Heaven and alive, she is not in a graven image and the 10 commandments forbids us to bow down to an image.
No, you are wrong, I do not bow before that statue. You must have missed the scripture study about the new Eve, which is Mary crushing the head of the snake, which is Satan when she brought Jesus into the world. The statue is just that, showing Mary crushing the head of Satan. A very good thing. Stop convincing yourself of silly things, you are wrong.
You do not bow before that statue I have made out of it, you bow to honor Mary, is that right? We know already that Mary is not your Goddess and therefore no idol. I exapt that. You believe that Mary is the new Eve that crushed Satan's head and is therefore co-redeemer with Christ, right? But inspite of your wrong believe you have transgressed God's law by putting an graven image in your livingroom. Your imagination that this is Mary is wrong, she is in Heaven and alive, it is forbidden to make a graven image of her and the 10 commandments forbids us to bow down before an image, if you do not do that and you do not use that image to pray to Mary, you could be excused, but you can fool us but not God, he knows.
You do not bow before that statue I have made out of it, you bow to honor Mary, is that right? We know already that Mary is not your Goddess and therefore no idol. I exapt that. You believe that Mary is the new Eve that crushed Satan's head and is therefore co-redeemer with Christ, right? But inspite of your wrong believe you have transgressed God's law by putting an graven image in your livingroom. Your imagination that this is Mary is wrong, she is in Heaven and alive, she is not in a graven image and the 10 commandments forbids us to bow down to an image.
I am in violent agreement with you in everything except the bowing down part. I told you I do not bow down to the statue.
Graven image? Do you have pictures of your relatives in your home? then they would be graven images by your definition.
I am in violent agreement with you in everything except the bowing down part. I told you I do not bow down to the statue.
Graven image? Do you have pictures of your relatives in your home? then they would be graven images by your definition.
I understand that the bowing down part is dangerous for you. So let me ask you this question, I have seen Pope John Paul II. kneeling before a statue of Mary, is that bowing down before an graven image? IMO yes, an image is for me when i make a pesel of a virgin and than say, that is the virgin Mary. A photo is not an imagination of a person, but the real person. No one would ask that photo for prayer or intercession and the statues in Washington DC are like the person and no one asked or prays to that person. How do you know how the virgin Mary looks like? You have a photo? Maybe your statue shows Fatima or what else? And you cannot fool me, Catholics put the statue of Mary even in a shrine and they kneel before that image when they pray to Mary. BTW Mary has not crashed the head of the serpent, it was Jesus. Gen 3:15 says "He" and that is not Mary. If Mary is so important, it imazes me that nothing what you make out of her is in the bible.
I have already answered all these questions and even linked to videos explaining it. WE DO NOT WORSHIP ANYONE OR ANYTHING EXCEPT GOD. I don't know how to make it any clearer.
You think prayer is only worship, many religions think of prayer as both as in addition to asking for intersessions. So if someone asks you to pray for them, you think you would be the intercessor between them and God? If so then you need to stop praying for people.
There really isn't anything else we can say janelle.
They have heard us say this time and again but continue to insist they don't understand.
The only logical answer is that they do understand what we are saying, but they apparently feel driven to tell us why we are wrong for our beliefs.
We could just as easily tell them why we think THEY are wrong, but we aren't interested in disrespecting their beliefs or converting them to ours
No, you are wrong, I do not bow before that statue. You must have missed the scripture study about the new Eve, which is Mary crushing the head of the snake, which is Satan when she brought Jesus into the world. The statue is just that, showing Mary crushing the head of Satan. A very good thing. Stop convincing yourself of silly things, you are wrong.
As is symbolic from genesis.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
The Nehushtan was made by Moses to heal the people when being bitten on the Dessert road. So what do the people do. They fall back into pagan worship.
It was God that healed them. yet the people wished to have a symbol to remember.
It has to do with memory. When things of significance occur in the old test they would stack rocks as a memorial. This was later diminished by Jesus when he transcended. Mark 9:2-30King James Version (KJV)
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
But Jesus refuted. It was told to be kept secret.
There really isn't anything else we can say janelle.
They have heard us say this time and again but continue to insist they don't understand.
The only logical answer is that they do understand what we are saying, but they apparently feel driven to tell us why we are wrong for our beliefs.
We could just as easily tell them why we think THEY are wrong, but we aren't interested in disrespecting their beliefs or converting them to ours
Just wish they would give us the same respect.
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By your definition these are all graven images
