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Rsteves62, more from L.Ray Smth on this topic (caps from the article):
Paul knew that once he died the next waking moment would be in resurrection with a new body (I Cor. 15:49), and although it would happen in an instant (from this life to the next life without missing a heart beat), in the twinkling of an eye (less than a second), nonetheless, it would have to wait until "the LAST TRUMP’ (I Cor. 15:51). But to Paul from his perspective, it would only be but a moment in time, seeing that, "the living KNOW that they shall die, but the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING." (Ecclesiates 9:5)
"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that SLEPT" (I Cor. 15:20).
Soon we too shall be like Him and see our Creator as He is:
"Beloved now are we the sons of God, but it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when He shall appear, we shall BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as HE is pure" (I John 3:2-3).
When Jesus appears, we shall be like Him. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-01-2020 at 10:36 AM..
There are many passages which speak of the soul dying or the realization death means actual death. For example:
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”—Ezekiel 18:4, 20
"For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they anymore a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun" Ecclesiates 9:5, 6.
Do not trust in princes, In [c]mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. 4 His spirit departs, he returns to [d]the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.Psalm 146: 3, 4
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might, for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest" Ecclesiates 9:10
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" Psalms 115:17
"Brother, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here today. For David did not ascend to heaven." Acts 2:29,34
David is not in heaven.
If the soul is immortal when we die, then Jesus is not the only one who has immortality. But 1 Timothy 6 tells us:
1 Timothy 6:
13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal (aionos) dominion! Amen.
Jesus is the only person who possesses immortality. He dwells in unapproachable light and no man or person has seen this or can see this.
I believe that the passage in 10:28 refers to the fact that no one can kill a person's identity except for God. When God breathed into Adam's nostrils, the breath of life, he became a living soul, a living creature, a living being. He became a person having thoughts, consciousness, beliefs, sensations, an identity and everything associated with being alive. When the body dies, the person, the soul dies, the person no longer lives consciously, but in one sense our identity can be remembered. People remember who we are, what we stood for, what we believed long after we die. And no one can kill that, except for the Creator. God is able to destroy everything that we are or ever have been. He is able to destroy the identity of a person or who that person was. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-01-2020 at 02:03 PM..
There are many passages which speak of the soul dying or the realization death means actual death. For example:
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”—Ezekiel 18:4, 20
"For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they anymore a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun" Ecclesiates 9:5, 6.
Do not trust in princes, In [c]mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. 4 His spirit departs, he returns to [d]the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.Psalm 146: 3, 4
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might, for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest" Ecclesiates 9:10
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" Psalms 115:17
"Brother, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here today. For David did not ascend to heaven." Acts 2:29,34
David is not in heaven.
If the soul is immortal when we die, then Jesus is not the only one who has immortality. But 1 Timothy 6 tells us:
1 Timothy 6:
13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal (aionos) dominion! Amen.
Jesus is the only person who possesses immortality. He dwells in unapproachable light and no man or person has seen this or can see this.
I believe that the passage in 10:28 refers to the fact that no one can kill a person's identity except for God. When God breathed into Adam's nostrils, the breath of life, he became a living soul, a living creature, a living being. He became a person having thoughts, consciousness, beliefs, sensations, an identity and everything associated with being alive. When the body dies, the person, the soul dies, the person no longer lives consciously, but in one sense our identity can be remembered. People remember who we are, what we stood for, what we believed long after we die. And no one can kill that, except for the Creator. God is able to destroy everything that we are or ever have been. He is able to destroy the identity of a person or who that person was. God bless.
King Solomon was known for having God-given wisdom, and he wrote four books, ‘The Wisdom of Solomon,’ ‘Proverbs,’ ‘Song of Songs,’ and “Ecclesiastes.”
In the book of sirach, R, H, Charles translation chapter 47 verse 17, it is written concerning Solomon, (1)“By thy songs, (2) Parrables (3) dark speeches, and (4) SATIRES, thou didst cause astonishment to the peoples etc.”
From the book of Ecclesiastes: “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. I envy those who are dead and gone; they are better off than those who are still alive. But better off than either, are those who have never been born etc. A man may have a hundred children and live a long time, but no matter how long he lives, if he does not get his share of happiness and does not receive a descent burial, then I say that a baby born dead is better off. Man and animal receive the same ultimate reward, total oblivion, from the dust they came and to the dust they shall return. A wise man is no better off than a fool, the reward for doing good is the same as that for doing evil, so don’t be too good or too wise, Why kill yourself?
We are all going to our final resting place, and although life is useless, the conclusion of the matter is, if you live a religious life you may at least experience some peace in the short span of consciousness that has been allocated to you in this useless life. So go ahead and eat, drink and be merry, drink your wine and be cheerful. It’s all right with God. Enjoy your life with the woman you love, as long as you live the useless life that God has given you in this world. Enjoy every useless day of it, because that is all that you’ll get for all your troubles. Never again will you take part in anything that happens in the world, because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead to where the righteous, the wicked, the wise and the fools, animal and man, are all going. For the living know that they are going to die, but the dead know nothing.”
Solomon’s songs are found in his book, ‘Song of Songs,’ his parables are found in his book of ‘proverbs,’ his dark speeches are in the ‘Wisdom of Solomon,’ and who can read the negative and even depressing words from the book of ‘Ecclesiastes’ without realizing that here is the satirical work of Solomon, aimed at those who believed in neither life after death, or the resurrection from the dead.
If you believe that the book of Ecclesiastes is gospel truth and is not the Satirical work of Solomon, you must believe that never again will you take part in anything that happens in the world, (NO RESURRECTION) because there will be no action, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom in the world of the dead to where the righteous, the wicked, the wise and the fools, animal and man, are all going. For the living know that they are going to die, but the dead know nothing.”
Moses asked God for his name in order that he might be able to tell the Israelites in Egypt, who had sent him. And God said; See Exodus 3: 14; "I Am Who I Am/YHVH." You must tell them: 'The one who is called "I AM/JHVH" has sent me to you.' Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them.
Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.
Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."
Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.
John 5: 24; "Whoever hears my words, (Which were the Words of the Lord God our savior that he commanded the man that he had chosen from among the people, to speak in his name) and believes in “HIM” who sent me, has eternal life.
Acts 3:19; “Repent then and turn to God, (Not to Jesus, but to God) so that He (God) will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and He will send Jesus, who is the Messiah that he has already CHOSEN for you.” The man Jesus, was chosen and made both Lord and saviour by “Who I Am”.
Acts 3:13; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.
Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.
Isaiah 42: 1; The Lord says, "Here is my servant, whom I strengthen---the one I have CHOSEN, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my spirit (Which descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, TODAY I have become your Father.) and he will bring justice to every nation.
1st Timothy 1:1; “From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of “GOD OUR SAVIOUR” and Christ Jesus “OUR HOPE.”
John 14: 24; “And the word which you hear is not mine, but ‘THE’ Fathers who sent me. Not “MY Father” but ‘THE’ Father of us all: “Our Father who is in heaven.”
Jesus said to Mary Magdalen in John 20: 17; “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”
They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” who raised the body of Jesus, the earthly temple, which had been filled with his spirit.
Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.
1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.
2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.
Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.
It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.” It is 'THE SON OF MAN' the only begotten son of God, who raised the man Jesus through who he revealed himself to the world, and it is HE who will raise the righteous also to be with his chosen heir and successor, Jesus, who we once knew as a MAN.
Last edited by The Anointed; 02-01-2020 at 03:09 PM..
Okay, thank you. The Father who raised Jesus from the dead will raise the dead. I believe that the same power was given to Jesus, because all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him and they act in unison. But I understand what you are sharing. The Father is the source of all power. The point that I was making is that we are actually dead until we are raised from the dead. God bless.
Okay, thank you. The Father who raised Jesus from the dead will raise the dead. I believe that the same power was given to Jesus, because all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him and they act in unison. But I understand what you are sharing. The Father is the source of all power. The point that I was making is that we are actually dead until we are raised from the dead. God bless.
The raising of the dead that we are here referencing, is the raising to eternal life.
The prophets, Elijah, Elisha, Jesus, and his apostles, all raised people from a death like coma, but all of those have since died.
Was all authority in heaven and on earth given to the man Jesus, or to the Son of God, who was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whose WORDS were spoken by Jesus his obedient servant, who was CHOSEN from among the Israelites and sent to speak in 'HIS NAME?'.
Why do you suppose that the earthly 'IMAGE" of 'THE SON OF MAN' had to be lifted up upon a pole in the same Manner as Moses lifted up upon a pole in the wilderness, an IMAGE of the serpent whose venomous poison was coursing through the veins of God's children and killing them. They only had to look to the 'IMAGE' that had been lifted up, in order to be saved.
2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.
I agree that the dead will be raised to be imperishable and immortal.
1 Cor. 15: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised [r]imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this [s]perishable must put on [t]the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this [u]perishable will have put on [v]the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
I agree that the dead will be raised to be imperishable and immortal.
1 Cor. 15: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised [r]imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this [s]perishable must put on [t]the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this [u]perishable will have put on [v]the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
God bless.
I also agree that the dead will be raised to be imperishable and immortal, although not by Jesus, but by HE who raised the Lord Jesus, and will raise US also with Jesus and bring US with YOU into his presence.
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