Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The spirits of the righteous are definitely at rest in Christ, but I don't believe that the spirits of the unrepentant wicked are at rest in Christ. Do you?
Isaiah 57:1-2; "Good people die and no one understands or even cares. But when they (Good People) die, no calamity can harm them. Those who lead Good lives find peace and rest in death."
Now you come along and tell us that even the unrepentant wicked find peace and rest in death as they await the great final Judgement.
So who are we to believe? I think I will stick to the scriptures mate,and believe that it is only the Righteous who enter into Christ, the cornerstone to the new Glorious Temple of God, who find peace and rest in death as they await the great Judgement, and their resurrection to eternal life.
Mike has already responded with his "I don't subscribe to soul sleep" () but I have a question to ask of you. If the righteous are raised as those who 'enter Christ' then why is there a need for 'the great Judgment' for them? I mean, they have already been 'judged' as 'righteous', have they not? What's to judge?
.................. Nor do I subscribe to the idea of soul sleep.
I am wondering why 'No soul sleep' since you did Not explain why No soul sleep _________________
I think the verses at Isaiah 57:1-2 that The Anointed posted is clear the dead 'rest' (R.I.P.) in the grave.
Even the word cemetery means: Sleeping Place, Not torture place.
The soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20 - and the soul can be destroyed - Acts 3:23
So, the dead soul, and the destroyed soul is: lifeless, Not conscious of anything.
So, it is No wonder that Scripture likens death to sleep: Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.
If a person is alive at death then there would be No need for a resurrection - Acts 24:15.
A resurrection for both the righteous and unrighteous...., but the wicked are 'destroyed forever ' - Psalm 92:7
Last edited by Matthew 4:4; 02-04-2020 at 09:09 PM..
Soul sleep is a valid term with reference to a false belief that the soul is unconscious between physical death and resurrection.
The life force of that 'soul' has been returned to the one who gave it and so it is presently 'life-less'. That soul will not be revived again until that life force is returned to it ...i.e. at the resurrection. You're really not arguing with me/us, you're arguing with the book that you're supposed to subscribe to.
Have you ever witnessed paramedics reviving someone from unconsciousness or apparent death? I have on a couple of occasions from drowning, one successful, the other not. The life force was returned to the former but, unfortunately, not to the latter. That 'breath of life' is a powerful component.
When Jesus referred to Lazarus sleeping, He explained further by saying that "Lazarus is dead." When a person dies, the body and soul die and the spirit returns to God. The body and soul are both dead until the resurrection. The soul is not living forever with Jesus in heaven upon death before the resurrection. Jesus is the only One who is immortal in heaven.
John 3
13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man..
1 Timothy 6:
13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal (aionos) dominion!
If the righteous are raised as those who 'enter Christ' then why is there a need for 'the great Judgment' for them? I mean, they have already been 'judged' as 'righteous', have they not? What's to judge?
I would like to take the liberty to mention that Acts 24:15 says there is going to be a resurrection for both the righteous and unrighteous.....
So, what both do ' after ' they are resurrected will determine everlasting life or not.
The coming judgement of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 is for the 'living' at the soon coming 'time of separation' to take place on Earth.
The ones with a 'favorable judgement' can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth when it begins.
The others receive an 'adverse judgement' and are classed with the wicked who will be 'destroyed forever ' - Psalm 92:7
So, in order Not to ' perish ' (be destroyed) we should choose to ' repent ' as per 2nd Peter 3:9.
I am wondering why 'No soul sleep' since you did Not explain why No soul sleep _________________
I think the verses at Isaiah 57:1-2 that Anointed posted is clear the dead 'rest' (R.I.P.) in the grave.
Even the word cemetery means: Sleeping Place, Not torture place.
The soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20 - and the soul can be destroyed - Acts 3:23
So, the dead soul, and the destroyed soul is: lifeless, Not conscious of anything.
So, it is No wonder that Scripture likens death to sleep: Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.
If a person is alive at death then there would be No need for a resurrection - Acts 24:15.
A resurrection for both the righteous and unrighteous...., but the wicked are 'destroyed forever ' - Psalm 92:7
We've had this conversation before on other threads. You know why I don't believe in soul sleep.
Jesus stated plainly in Matthew 10:28 that while man can kill the body, he cannot kill the soul. That means that the soul survives physical death. The question then is where does the soul of the believer go when he dies. That question is answered by John in his vision of Tribulational martyrs in heaven in Revelation 7, who are very much awake.
As I've already said in post #3 of this thread,
I take John's vision in Revelation 7:9-14 of seeing a great multitude of people from every nation, tribe, and peoples and tongues literally. If what John said isn't literal but was intended as being symbolic or allegoric for something else, then what was the symbolism pertaining to? What could it possibly mean other than what it says?
The ancient Hebrews, at least many of them, believed that life continued on in some way after physical death. We know this because people paid necromancers to contact the dead and the Mosaic Law forbade that practice. And of course king Saul asked a necromancer to bring up the spirit of the dead prophet Samuel so he could seek advice from him. So the belief that the dead could be contacted certainly existed in ancient Israel even if not everyone may have believed it.
I also think that Paul's statement of his desire to depart and be with the Lord means that he knew that to be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord. The Lord is in heaven, and the believer is positionally in Jesus, so why not be literally with Jesus in heaven when we die?
I disagree with the idea that if the soul goes to be with the Lord when you die that it means that resurrection isn't necessary because it isn't God's plan for people to go though eternity as a bodiless spirit. Heaven is just a temporary waiting place for those who have died and are awaiting the resurrection.
Now, you're not going to change your beliefs because of anything I just said, and I'm not going to change what I believe based on the scripture I just referred to, as a result of anything you have to say, so let's just leave it at that.
Mike has already responded with his "I don't subscribe to soul sleep" () but I have a question to ask of you. If the righteous are raised as those who 'enter Christ' then why is there a need for 'the great Judgment' for them? I mean, they have already been 'judged' as 'righteous', have they not? What's to judge?
There is no more judgement for those who rest in Christ, and they are resurrected before the great day of Judgement, for they are the chosen ones who are to take the thrones that have been prepared for them, and they will rule with Christ for the thousand year Sabbath. after which comes the end and the day of Judgement. See Rev 20.
I am wondering why 'No soul sleep' since you did Not explain why No soul sleep _________________
I think the verses at Isaiah 57:1-2 that The Anointed posted is clear the dead 'rest' (R.I.P.) in the grave.
Even the word cemetery means: Sleeping Place, Not torture place.
The soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20 - and the soul can be destroyed - Acts 3:23
So, the dead soul, and the destroyed soul is: lifeless, Not conscious of anything.
So, it is No wonder that Scripture likens death to sleep: Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.
If a person is alive at death then there would be No need for a resurrection - Acts 24:15.
A resurrection for both the righteous and unrighteous...., but the wicked are 'destroyed forever ' - Psalm 92:7
No mate, Isaiah says that those who lead GOOD LIVES find peace and rest in death, why, Do you believe that the disembodied spirits of the unrepentant wicked find peace and rest in death also? The parable of Lazarus and the rich man does not lead us to believe that.
Jesus stated plainly in Matthew 10:28 that while man can kill the body, he cannot kill the soul. That means that the soul survives physical death. The question then is where does the soul of the believer go when he dies. That question is answered by John in his vision of Tribulational martyrs in heaven in Revelation 7, who are very much awake.
As I've already said in post #3 of this thread,
I take John's vision in Revelation 7:9-14 of seeing a great multitude of people from every nation, tribe, and peoples and tongues literally. If what John said isn't literal but was intended as being symbolic or allegoric for something else, then what was the symbolism pertaining to? What could it possibly mean other than what it says?...................
Revelation 7:14,9 is still ahead of us. The coming 'great tribulation' to take place on Earth is still future.
That 'great crowd' of living people of verse 9 are the figurative humble 'sheep ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37.
So, it is the living who are awake in John's vision and who can remain awake, remain alive and go through the great tribulation of Rev. 7:14; Isaiah 26:20.
Remaining alive on Earth and be the first to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth for a thousand years when it begins.
I find the King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell at Matthew 10:28 B.
There is says to be in fear of Him which is able to DESTROY both soul and body in Gehenna.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed.
So, it is No wonder that gospel writer Luke wrote at Acts 3:23 that the soul can be destroyed.
Soul in Scripture does stand for the life of a person. ( Adam became a living soul - Gen. 2:7 )
Jesus was saying cannot kill the soul: can Not kill the 'eternal life' of a person because of the resurrection.
In God's eyes the faithful dead men of Hebrews chapter 11 are viewed as being alive in God's eyes because of the coming future resurrection - Acts 24:15.
Faithful enduring men who are assured of a coming resurrection of the righteous ones.- Matthew 24:13.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) but I have a question to ask of you. If the righteous are raised as those who 'enter Christ' then why is there a need for 'the great Judgment' for them? I mean, they have already been 'judged' as 'righteous', have they not? What's to judge?
